Of course they would be perfectly normal and functional. Until one carrier relative was bred to another carrier relative, no matter how many generations in the future, and the dice rolled to affected. Because every time a carrier is bred there is a 50% chance that the gene would land in its offspring, no matter how many generations are between the first carrier and the last.
Gene editing would be the ultimate solution in an individual case.
Aqua Farms owns both his sire and his dam sire.
I think you are missing their point: those horses would be carriers and end up in the breeding pool as carriers, in a breeding population that does not already test for that disease because it is not a present issue in that population, like TBs or WBs. Down the road that would be a problem because thatās how genetic diseases filter into a population.
The winning formula for event horses favors at least 50% blood with irish blood (through Connemara, ISH, IDH, etc) and WB blood. People are breeding half and part-breds more than ever for eventing.
I disagree with your bold part. That is simply not true with either Connemara or ISH/IDH. I mention the ISH/IDH because it is not uncommon to have them interlap. One of the most eminent Connemara breeders stands a 1/2bred that is anything but an end product.
I believe that breeder you speak of also stood a carrier stallion with over 60 offspring. Half of which will be carriers and several of whom are entered into the WE and ISR studbooks as well as ACPS. Hence its not whethere it will filter in it is already present. Same goes for 90 other heritable conditons not mentioned here.
Its a very valid point Owners of cross bred foals need to be informed, and should test their stock prior to breeding or sale.
About half of the problem goes away in the first generation due to the nature of how the allele is transmitted AND almost certain castration of cross bred colts (most are breeding for a performance animal-not necessarily breeding stock).
Further breeding of cross breds further diminishes the chances that that the allele will be inherited at all while still preserving valuable genetics.
I would like testing and registration notation of status to be standard for all fillies, and any uncastrated colts, from carriers. This currently what the ACPS is working towards. (Please see my post above). Not sure where the bolding came from as I didnt bold anything?! Currently though high performing Connemaras X competing at the FEI level are nearly all halfbreds. Obviously their could be more unrecognized half and 1/4 breds competing which is where identification becomes critical.
Currently the highest placed Connemaras x competing at the FEI level is Feldale Mouse sired by Domo Cavallo Praize who I believe was determined to be a carrier.
If anyone is interested in learning more about the pedigree research behind HWSD check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvzcViFXQlU&t=1172s
Very interesting thread. To the OP - I do understand your desire to breed your own next horse rather than just going out to buy a young one. Iāve bred several of my own saddle horses and cannot describe the fun and satisfaction of doing it all and raising them at home. The inevitable ups and downs are part of it and you have to be prepared for some spendy
problems when the āsensibleā thing is to go shopping! Good luck.
I have had many conn/tbās and some have gone on to 1* and 2* levels. I recommend looking at those that have or are closely related to those would have produced UL crosses. I have seen some very attractive and talented stallions that have not produced anything I would want in my barn.
Aladdinās Denver has repeatedly produced super scopey offspring and he himself could and did jump the moon. I would look closely at anything related to him or to his sire, Aladdin, if looking at US stallions. One that I really like is Alluinās Durango. He has not been used a great deal and has not had super quality mares bred to him always. Yet he is producing super nice babies and I have yet to see one that I did not like. He is sired by Denver and produces larger babies, typically. The Aladdin line typically produces offspring that are over 15 hands and I know of one that is now successful at the 2* level (by Denver) that is well over 16.2. The two I had here were 16.1 and 15.1 and the former did will at the 2* level and the latter is moving up the levels, recently completing a 1*, with a 15 year old junior.
There are other lines that are good and you do not have to breed to a carrier in order to have a great chance at a good and talented offspring. I personally will not breed to a carrier nor acquire a carrier (unless it is a gelding, of course) but thatās my personal choice and I understand how there are those who would.
You do NOT have to breed to a carrier to get a super performance prospect. There are many lovely non-carrier connemara stallions that have produced excellent performance horses. The long term Connemara breeders I know will not include carriers in their breeding ponies. These include top US and European breeders (well-known Irish breeders, for example).
Vineyās point is well taken. I am seeing quite a few crossbred mares being bred these days, and I seriously doubt that those breeding such mares outside of connemaras are going to pass on detailed records of carrier status. It is best to avoid genetic defects all together, and we are fortunate to have genetic testing.
Graytbmare, my TB mare is 15.3 so smaller, refined, very good mover, catty, good gallop. Plain but turned fancy u/s. XC machine, good in dressage, spooky as heck of anything without flags. Killer buck and a Bit sneaky (like land from a oxer, slam on brakes and heels over ears). Bit of a diva, really. Really would have been happy with a clone though. Her oldest filly was full TB, basically a chestnut version of her, went Intermediate like mom, identical best dressage score even LOL. Both were a bit overeager xc and took thoughtful, but not excessive, bitting.
Formula One mare is still a little looky, but not fearful, willing to check spooky stuff out, makes her careful over fences. She is much more uphill than mom, had a rangier frame, fabulous mover, GREAT gallop. A real goer, makes time by a mile, but excellent brakes and gears, goes in a nathe or Mylar snaffle. Pocket pony. 16.1. Improved gallop, movement, and interest in partnership with a human LOL.
The Royal Appearance filly is very fancy. Short coupled, not rangey like sis. lovely mover, should be catty. Very brave, not particularly looky, a little stand offish with strangers. Just started longeing, a little more opinionated than the Formula One. Should finish 16.1 I think. Maybe not quite as uphill as the F1. She did break a 4x4 with her face running and slipping in the pasture. But other than that injury free, knock on wood.
Tatendrang filly is super sweet, fancy, looks to be perfectly between rangey and catty. Very smart. She is up to my chin at 6 mos which would be about 14h, all leg. Really nice balance. Think even though she will be big that she will be light on her feet. Great uphill gallop out in the field.
What type of ride I preferā¦ Ooh, what a good question and one I so rarely see asked by breeders!! I like horses who can save my tail when I goof without being jerks about it. Forward, not hot, light on their feet and polite. āConventionalā-- you put your quarter in, you get the expected results. No excessive problem solving required. Talented but rideable is #1. Iām not of the opinion that talented = quirky, I think there are probably LOTS of talented horses plotzing around at 3ā with ammies, who can afford talent AND brains and maybe not utilize all the former. Talented gets equated with quirky because really good, driven trainers donāt necessarily have deep pockets. JMHO. 
Jennifer
This, 100%!
Fred, we have very similar taste :yes:
This is really, really helpful, thank you! How fun to have such a variety, but they all seem to fit into your talented, but ridable qualification. If all goes well with my mareās first pregnancy, I wouldnāt be opposed to breeding her again and your stallion choices are pretty in line with my top picks!
I am hoping you are a mare person, with all the girls you have I definitely am. My mare is one of those that will turn herself inside-out trying to take care of you cross country- if I am uncertain, I can keep my leg on and she figures out the rest. So damn smart, too. Dressage is another matter, but likely caused by my inexperience there. Your TB sounds like such a blast to ride- I can definitely understand why you bred her. The babies seem fantastic, as well.
It is funny because Iāve definitely been in the talented but quirky boat with almost everything Iāve owned, mostly out of budget. I keep telling my trainer that I donāt mind it, but, honestly, itād be nice to bring something along that didnāt have quite as much baggage. Iām definitely a seven days a week rider, so itās always nice to see all the effort and time pay off.
Thank you again for being so willing to share all of this- itās been a weird realization that what I am doing is a little outside the norm, at least in my immediate horse connections.
I am definitely a mare person, I woulda cried if she had a colt. Iāve always had cheap, quirky talented horses, so raising talented normal ones has been eye opening.
Jennifer
Tzigane (Trak) is also back in the USA and he has had several upper level eventers. The mentioned Hirtentanz son has competed successfully in his first GP (jumping).
Opps, sorry I missed youāwas traveling! Thank you for your compliments on my colts! Best of luck narrowing down your remaining options!
NMK - glad to hear you won that award! Please let everyone know in as many places as you can. I came up with the idea and recruited people to sponsor it, and would like to continue doing so for the next couple of years. Please, please make it a special thing!
Hi ElizabethāI wish the USEA would write something, itās great story. Would inspire other breeders to produce more USA breds. Maybe someone could contact them? I sent the trophy plate to Ashley Brandt, his breeder.
The ACPS publishes a list of stallion status. Frankly itās not a big issue - almost all of the stallions in the US are N/N. ( non carriers) The few that are have other traits that make them extremely valuable. Because your mare is a TB, you will never produce an affected horse, and you have a 25 % chance of producing a non-affected carrier. There is an easy inexpensive test.
After reading most of this thread, you really need to consider a Connemara stallion. They consistently produce exactly what you are looking for. At the risk of angering a few, GRPs are lovely but very often can be trickier individuals they also do not have the reputation of producing the āfifth legā and survivalist attitude which is exactly what the Connemara is known for producing. Not to mention boneā¦ for days. LOL
I often donāt chime in on these threads because it seems to be an uphill battle but if your goal is a horse for eventing, the first thoughts should be TB and Irish ( ISH, IDSH, RID, Connemara) .
There are more than a few lovely Connemara boys out thereā¦ Megan Harris stallion TBS Declan Pondi, goodponyāsstallion, ArdCeltic Art, JEF Sir Lancelot and of course I have to plug my own lovely boy Blue Ridge Monroe.
Super fun way to pass the winter months! Stallion shopping!
Hereās a link to our stallionās facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/946146235398942/videos/1884967771516779/
I agree about the connemaras! I love the TB/Connemara cross.
In terms of carriers, I do think we need to be very careful when selling a crossbred. I recently talked with someone who had purchased a 4 year old crossbred mare sired by a carrier. She had never heard of the disease and had no idea whether her mare was a carrier. That was a young mare, sold through a very reputable dealer and no information was ever provided. This new owner was shocked and I only happened to mention it when she told me the sire of her mare and how she plans to breed her to a Connemara stallion in the future. And to make this even more alarming, she was talking about breeding to a stallion who is, himself, a carrier.
So do we know how many carriers there are? Of the ones listed here, I believe that two are actual carriers. Unless I am totally misinformed and if so, my apologies.
This is a link to the voluntary reporting page from the Connemara HWSD working group blog. American stallions must report their status to the ACPS. Will look for a link.
http://connemara-pony.blogspot.com/p/hwsd-tested-ponies.html
Thank you! I wish it were mandatory reporting.
BTW, I am a big fan of Monroe and am keeping my eyes peeled for a leggy crossbred colt or gelding! I had a mare by Duncan years ago who was the best foxhunting machine I have raised. She was adorable and fancy and was the tidiest jumper on Godās Green Earth!
I have been so disappointed in the lack of crossbreds this year that I went out and got two TB mares. I am staying as close to Aladdinās Denver as I can through Durango because I had such amazing offspring by Denver, years ago. But there are amazing offspring of most of our good connemara stallions! Monroe is proof of that.
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