Yes I said better and I mean better….
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…okay? That has been established. Doesn’t mean you’re right or that I have to agree.
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Why don’t you offer your thoughts. Rather than a one-liner. I would be interested in understanding your world view.
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Please refer to post 95, which you quoted.
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This is well said and bears repeating!
It is an exceptionally experienced (and likely well heeled) person who can take young green horses to GP! Very, very few people can or even WANT to do that.
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Exactly. And even worse, if you learn something and it is wrong, you will eventually have to “unlearn” that and learn the correct way before you can advance.
I experienced this when I first learned to ski (from people who didn’t know how to ski.) Then I went skiing with a very experienced skier and he asked “what are you doing?” I answered “skiing” to which he shook his head and said “no, you’re not!” 
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And how many young or young-ish horses do we see who are pretty messed up from people who don’t know what they’re doing trying to train them? I’ve seen more than I’d like to.
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Jeez…Again…the Either / Or…black/white, binary or negative point of view.
I have suggested to do BOTH / AND…as in to lease Wonder Horse to act as the professor horse AND to buy a young horse to train UNDER SUPERVISION.
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Post #95
I think you used the word “better”…I am saying “more”…as in “more tools in the toolbox.”
I have been in Olympic competitor barns. When the barn staff were feeding hay, the horses were pushy and did not know the word “back” to get out of the way of the person delivering hay.
I have had the oppportunity to do work in hand with a horse that came out of that barn and it had a mouth like a 50lb cinderblock.
So, one learns “different things” from different horses and different trainers. I learned the most from the best stallion handler I know who established my expectations about what I should look for in “polite horse behavior.” The bar was set pretty high after that.
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No, these are different opinions and/or experiences from yours. There is nothing negative, binary, etc. about them. Your saying so does not make it so.
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50 million ways and paths to Rome. Pick the one that fulfills you.
My budget means I’ll always buy the inexpensive horses, but if I could afford a school master I would a million times over. But me having a schoolmaster doesn’t change my horsemanship on the ground and care, just makes me a better rider.
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I’m not going to get in the comparison debate on training your own vs. buying it made, but I would like to say this: organizations do need to find a way to single out and reward those who train their own horses. The reason is that, except for budget (and for those of us who enjoy the incremental training part) training your own horse has no reward or advantage and maybe has a disadvantage because of the time that has to be invested. If you watch the top levels of the sport in the US, what is happening? Most of them are buying made horses. When everyone who can afford it does this, and these are the people who have the most access to the top coaching, we lose a level of trainer wisdom for developing horses to trickle down. Locally, we have very few trainers who have ever trained a horse to GP and more who are getting their medals on a client’s schoolmaster, yet they advertise as GP trainers. Now we have these medals of distinction, which rewards, well in many cases, the ability to ride really expensive horses. I find it a merit that someone could train their non traditional horse to GP and have a harmonious but not very expressive test and get their 60s AND it may actually have taken more skill to achieve that since they have to nail their transitions and ride accurately to achieve a 60 on a 6 mover. Yet they never will get a medal of distinction or any medal for self training and learning things they can pass along to other people and horses…Even those who have top horseflesh that are buying them young and training them themselves have only the FEI young horse tests to get some distinction and a lot of people do not want to participate in the young horse tests.
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Yikes.
Sorry, OP, that as usual we’ve turned a valid question into a philosophical debate about why people who can afford to pursue things in a different way are inherently bad riders.
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In her first post OP said that board and training for the lease horse “will absorb every bit of my income and require loans for a few years to absorb his price tag,” so I’m not sure that your suggestion is realistic, especially with a $50k annual lease fee.
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And I am saying everything is negotiable.
Sometimes saying “can’t” or “won’t” happen will cut off alternatives. Those alternatives may come to pass if one can think of creative ways of making those things possible.
Of course, there is always economic reality, but I tend to figure out potential alternatives first then overlay the economics later. As I said many times, OP can trash my suggestions…they are just alternative suggestions.
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I think that you will see the pros at the GP level never start their own horses. Someone else backs them and brings them up to at least 1st or 2nd level; often 3rd. I’ve often wondered whether it was fear of getting hurt or just a time consideration or what the reason for that was.
I was told by one that it is a different skill set to ride young green horses. It is extremely difficult to get on horses that need more basic aids and a little more help to build muscle and to understand what they need to do (such as being straight), and then transition to horses that know the basics and need a much lighter touch and respond to many different and much more refined aids.
I think that makes sense. Going from starting horses to riding an FEI horse, it was very hard for me to remember to ask for the canter with my weight only, for example.
So to get to GP, I think that the OP is doing the right thing if she can afford it to buy a horse that is at least one level above her riding ability, and then keeping it in training or having a lesson every day.
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OP, in the Warmblood Sales link up thread did you see the 12 year old Andalusian showing GP for $140k? I’d recommend shopping around and seeing if you can fall in love with a more reasonably priced horse that can help you meet your goals.
I can speak to being an experienced rider but very much learning dressage while also training the horse I backed. It has been HARD especially the first three years, but I wouldn’t trade it for anything. I get moment of envy seeing someone with deep pockets import multiple FEI horses and get her silver in a year, but that is not my journey. We will be debuting at second next weekend, and are playing with half passes and will hopefully start changes in the fall. I only get lessons about once a month, but it sounds like OP could access full or part training, and could start out with something that is already farther into the levels. It’s not like she would be unsupported if she chose to buy and develop a younger horse.
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about lighter touch…as the horse develops the volume of aids reduces. It happens organically.
But, i’m sure it IS a different skillset. nd i think it really is a matter of rewards. What a horseperson finds rewarding…and what a person sets as a goal to gain that reward. For me, it’s the journey that’s the thrill. All the little things along the way that build a willing happy mount are like ornaments…shiny little badges that i put on myself as a horse proceeds. I self-reward lol. To take a raw horse, to get them straight and moving in a good steady effervescent way, responsive to my seat and not hanging on my hand…it’s a real thrill. And to see where, (in what sort of movement) they are naturally talented and what they need help developing GENTLY into…I’d rather take 5 or 20 horses up into three beautiful gaits and easy lateral movements than to get a silver bronze or gold on one horse. But then, i’ve not experienced showing, am mostly quite fearful actually… so my little niche here, fits me.
learning the little industry standard finger-twigglies and leg positions and various pressures…what it is that works on most horses.,for the upper level dressage movements is a thing i’m still trying to wrap my head around. My approach will be to learn as my horses learn. I have a coach who i usually understand and after a few questions i can glean her information.
Proselytizing: I do think that developing a horse from the ground up is such a great experience and i would wish it upon every horseperson.
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Agreed
Most pros I know will send a horse off at least for a few months. With a good dressage minded horse starter and a purpose bred dressage horse they’re typically first level balance in a month or two and playing with second level elements, but of course not with the full balance. The pro then picks back up with their super green but somewhat straight baby that has transitions and bend installed.
To me, Emily Miles is a very cool exception. She and her mom breed lovely horses in the Midwest and she’s successfully brought several up in addition to starting tons of babies and getting them solid first/second for future buyers.
An electric UL potential can be a lot to start and I understand that many pros need to be careful about their bodies. It takes a special mix of talent and humor to start a young horse athletic enough to through in changes at the slightest provocation or can spook and be carrying you the opposite direction before you can blink.
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Oh, I’m sure purpose-bred dressage horses are much different from mustangs. Probably a whole lot more difficult than what i do! If nothing else, their size. I only have a three-step mounting block to use …lol
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