I will take a mustang over a WB. They are usually healthy because it is survival of the fittest in the wild. And they have good brains becaue the same…dumb ones don’t live. There is some interesting breeding in mustang herds especially if we are discussing remnants of the old US Cavalry Remount program.
And disclaimer…I have owned a 17-3hh Hanoverian with German pink papers.
hmmmm…well, i’m prejudiced. I have no experience with the health of a WB. Nor of a hose that lives in a stall. and i agree w/survival of the fittest (over about 30 generations). But more than that, I think starting with a feral, born wild horse, developing a bond, and then haltering and leading and all the other things on the ground puts a person in a much more comfortable place to begin riding. More-so than a domestically bred horse because you are their first human hands. They are predisposed to pairing with you… (a specific pairing, to you individually. Because they absolutely DO differentiate brought up in that way.)
Sorry i can’t help but de-rail topics around to mustangs it seems. I’ll shut up.
I have no experience with Mustangs but I bought a warmblood filly which was raised by her breeder in a pasture. I brought her to my barn when she was turning 4 backed her the traditional German way and when she was turning 5 I turned her out again. I board at a perfect barn with beautiful Pastures. Since then she lives outside and I ride her every day… warmbloods are able to do this…
And about the bonding… that is not Mustang specific… Every horse loves to bond especially young mares (my experience). It makes training so much easier!!! A horse loves to do things together with his friend and partner and once it understands what it is supposed to do you don’t need a lot of aids because the horse will be eager to do it right…
. I could sell my horse every day because everybody is telling me that the mare has the best personality ever and that I was so lucky to pick a foal with a personality like that….
This! If you’re an upper-level professional, your time and health are valuable. Why wouldn’t you focus your resources on horses that are closer to being competitive and let riders who specialize in bringing young horses along through the lower levels use their skills? Many of the upper-level riders did the same in their youth. It’s like judging a neurosurgeon for not scrubbing in on an appendectomy.
As an amateur, either path is okay and has pros/cons! I’m an amateur who brought a (not very fancy) 4-year-old up to GP as the primary rider, and even with help from a fantastic trainer it took us 13 years to get there due to injuries and both of us learning together. I then bought a yearling who had to be put down at 5. I now have a 6-year-old who with luck will be my next GP horse, nine years after the first one made it to the level. I love the process and the satisfaction, but not everyone feels they have so many years to struggle, possibly fail, and start over. Or feels comfortable sitting on 3- and 4-year-olds. And that’s really okay! Whether OP buys this schoolmaster or another one, hopefully she’ll learn a lot and enjoy the sport.
Congratulations on your accomplishments and I’m sorry for your early loss.
I know several AAs and even pros who have gone the green to FEI path. All have at least one horse that either was not physically or mentally able to make the journey and several who also had early painful losses. It’s a long journey with the highest of highs and lowest of lows.
Riding young horses takes boldness and confidence. They do silly things. I can’t afford a made horse, so I’ve started my journey with a nice young horse. I did not enjoy the part of the journey where I had to install steering, and I did not enjoy the part of the journey where I had to install forward. I did not enjoy it because I was learning how to install it while teaching him, and that is hard. Now that he’s approaching 7, he’s much more ridable, mainly due to mine and my trainers hard and sweaty work. And he is healthy and completely sound, thankfully.
I don’t really want to repeat this process all over again, so I’m hoping in a few years after we turn him into a nice schoolmaster that I can upgrade and trade him for something fancier with a green change. This AA got her colt-starter merit badge, and I’d like to move on to other things, thank you. If I suddenly had a million dollars, you bet I’d be buying myself a super schoolmaster and handing off the youngster for full training for another year.
The comparison of surgeon types is apt. I work in tech so it’s like being a frontend dev versus a back end dev or a full stack dev. True full stack devs are rare, like a trainer who can bring a horse from halter broke to GP. But there are many good data engineers and front end devs, serverless engineers, etc who are very good at what they do, and that is just fine, like there are trainers who are very good at bringing horses from 3rd level up, polishing finished horses for the show ring, or just starting babies.
Yes, but the thing is that most really good pros DID start lots of horses early in their careers. Did they train them up to GP? That’s a much smaller group. What I take issue with is calling yourself an FEI trainer or GP trainer if you have never ever trained a horse to that level, EVEN IF you got your gold medal on a client’s schoolmaster. I think that is fraud. I doubt that would happen in Europe. I also believe it is fraud to charge your own rates for your learning working student to train the horse and that happens all the time in the US too…and is illegal in Europe.
We have people who’ve been long listed for the Olympics that don’t meet those requirements for better or worse.
Maybe that’s the reason for some of the problems in Dressage nowadays…. Horses are not a partner who you respect but simply an object you use to make profit…
Well, if I were the OP, I’d sure have run screaming from this thread now that everyone has told me I’m a cheater and a bad rider who doesn’t respect her horses.
What a brush to tar someone with for asking a simple question.
Are you having a bad day? That’s not what I get from reading this thread…. I read nowhere that the OP plans to become a master of horsemanship! She likes the horse she is riding in the moment and has dressage goals for the future…. She has some tricky decisions to make and I believe she got some good advice …
Yes the thread somehow evolved, but that’s normal …. So what?
@pluvinel You make great points about horsemanship and learning via training young horses, and I get it because that’s my forte too - bringing along & developing young horses and I love it.
However, young horses are just not for everyone. Full stop.
And I don’t think it’s right to imply (not sure if that’s what you’re saying so forgive me if I read too much into your words) that the only way to be a true horseman or rider is to develop young horses through the levels. The reality is everybody is on their own horse journey, and I think it’s cool that there are so many ways to enjoy and ride horses. It’s not right to judge others for their competition goals that don’t include developing a young horse. They have just as much as a right to be in this sport as the young horse riders.
Frankly, the risk involved (financially and risks to the rider’s physical body & mental health/self confidence) is pretty high when developing young horses, especially if you were never the kind of scrappy rider that got on everything and anything as a kid. Even adult re-riders who used to ride the problem horses and young horses when they were kids and then when they have the $ try to recreate that with adult aging & less fit bodies, confidence issues, and other responsibilities (ie worrying about what would happen to their kid or non horse job if they got hurt on a young horse)… this can set both the young horse and the owner/rider up for failure. And if you are aiming for Grand Prix and you’re over 40 and you’ve never ever sat on young horses or problem horses, there is absolutely no reason to start!
This is coming from a place of watching several friends get really hurt when they bought a young horse that ultimately was the wrong horse for them, when what they really needed was a schoolmaster to have fun with and meet bucket dream goals both in and out of the show arena.
My two cents.
Such a good point. There is also a lot of wonderful horsemanship skills to be developed and honed maintaining the body and brain of an aging athlete and giving them a quality retirement when the time comes.
I agree with your post, but I also wanted to note something else that a GP trainer told me. She said that she doesn’t like to train young horses because it is too easy for an UL trainer to push young horses past their physical limits. So that’s a good point, too.
With people who are starting and training their own horses while learning themselves, the journey may take so long that by the time the rider is ready to train something, the horse may no longer be physically capable.
huh?
I’ve known several people who learned along with their horses. But by the time they were ready for 3rd level, the horse had significant arthritic changes in the hocks. Teaching flying changes to a horse that has arthritic hocks can be difficult because it causes the horse to have pain.
Once the changes are installed, with proper joint maintenance, the horse can usually keep doing changes, but it is hard to teach them to do something that makes them physically uncomfortable without developing resistance.
That’s just one example, but if you are trying to teach a horse to do any UL movements when the horse has age related soundness issues, it’s going to be difficult.
So, what you are saying is that the learning curve for a lower level dressage rider is so slow that horses age-out before the ownertrainerrider can take their horse into upper levels. hummm…
Well perhaps you’re right. But i think i disagree. Horses started at age 4 aren’t ready for at least three years for the more joint-straining, joint-degenerating movements are they? Lots of prep and body building as well as response to ever more subtle aids can get accomplished in those three years.
It depends on how long it takes to get there, of course. It’s not just about the horse; when you are talking about rider who is learning along with the horse, it depends on the rider’s progress and training ability as well. A rider who is training movements for the first time with a horse that is learning them for the first time is going to take longer to get there. A lot longer.
I’d ask the same of you, but I know you’re not and you are just derisive because you enjoy it.
i remember how i learned to ‘enjoy the journey’. Not with horses though…with dogs. I had success after success…ribbons/titles/trophies. Finally having achieved the pinnacle of honor i had a very hollow emptiness inside of me. And there was no: “Now what?”…what’s next. There was nothing left. Luckily i had this life altering ah-ha moment when i was still pretty young. 40 (lol…i call that young now)
So, for me, there’s no such thing as a long time. Time isn’t running out. Time is what is happening while i am enjoying the things i do. Nowdays it’s with raw horses. I do not want a shortcut, i want to take it the long way.
Again, totally different from this topic and OP’s question. But a legitimate approach to horsemanship.
For the record, I would not take out a loan for a 12 year old horse no matter what i felt would be gained by getting a leg-up to my goal. What i think i’d do is get aboard as many UL horses as i could and get as many feels as i could. Then, armed with the combined experience i’d find a horse i could buy with cash and haul to the best trainers/coaches i could get to until i found one who spoke to me in a way i could really totally understand…and i’d plant me and my horse there, with him/her for as long as i could afford it/as many times as i could afford it until i outgrew that coach.
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