I think this guy’s head has gotten too big for his hat.
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;8201390]
I was wondering if we should/could start a “members of COTH” plea to SmartPak about this. Thanks for sending the link, alfonsina.
I don’t know how companies make their decisions on whom to sponsor, but it seems a very poor choice to be sponsoring CA given all of what the OP stated . . . and that was just at one stop on his “tour”![/QUOTE]
I believe product-placement decisions are most commonly made by advertising agencies, looking for “name recognition” and people who can pull a crowd. The TV connection would also be a draw. Perfectly possible the owners of SmartPak and the others were only peripherally involved in the decision. Hopefully they’ll be as turned off as the OP.
[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8200242]
Anderson, Parelli, John Lyons, Monty Roberts, and others of their ilk are the 21st century answer to olde-tyme “medicine shows” or travelling rodeo cowboys who can “ride what you can’t ride.” It’s all about the showmanship, and impressing people who don’t know much–many of whom are in over their heads with a horse or two that they can’t manage. In the olden days, the whole ranch staff would sit on the fence taking bets and spitting tobacco while the manager trotted out the “rogues” and everyone prepared to watch the fun.
One big difference; the horses were considered “expendable” in those days.
Practically ANY book about starting or training horses, even those written for children 50 or 60 years ago, has more useful, truthful, and actionable information than any of these “round-pen wizards.”
The bottom line is that there is a certain tried-and-true progression in training horses to be useful work and sport companions, and when that FAILS it’s either because someone screwed it up, or they didn’t take enough time, and the horse needs to be “re-programmed” by a competent professional who can spend months, not minutes. A horse that can’t be trained to be useful the conventional way just may not have the temperament to be an ammie’s or child’s pet to begin with. Move him on and find one you can live with easily.
The whole mentality of “I can tame anything, no matter how dangerous” that sells these bozos’ DVD’s is a relic of the 19th century rodeo mentality and should be dismissed out of hand.
I attribute the whole phenomenon to well-meaning people who didn’t grow up with horses and don’t understand the basics.[/QUOTE]
Has John Lyons changed his methods? I admit it has been 10 years or more since I have read anything about his training methods, but you can’t lump him in with CA. At least back then he was always gentle and taught respect and kindness in his training. Just curious.
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;8201046]
This is an interesting and important question/comment/statement - are you (the general you) willing to not patronize the sponsors who support this a$$hole schmuck? Would you boycot SmartPak and your supplements to make a stand against this douchebag?[/QUOTE]
I see someone has actually written to SmartPak. Which is the only way to make your boycott have any meaning. None of these companies are going to notice a few people stop buying from them or why they stopped buying. If you want to make a point you have to tell them what the point is.
I haven’t kept up with any of the methods or ideas presented by any of these big wig NH trainers, but all that I remember of John Lyons was to keep things calm, quiet and safe formhorsemand rider, and to break each task into mini lessons with small achievable steps. If you have a failure at a step, back up and reteach…find your hole in their education.
Watching CA on tv ages ago, I thought he was rough and asked WAY too much of horses too fast, both physically and mentally.
I agree, if you are going to boycott, you need to let the sponsor know why. They may have been invited to or saw a “clean” version of CA’s show and not realize what they are “sponsoring”.
Horsemanship issues aside, the cursing and vulgarity sound like he is either burnt out or is having some kind of mental health or substance abuse issues. That kind of behavior just doesn’t fly when you are working with the public. Maybe its time for him to take a long break from the public clinics.
I would write to the sponsors and emphasize the cursing and vulgarity and point out that his clinic was not family friendly.
The response from Smartpak, bland,corporate, and non-committal. “We do our best not to judge others”? I think some judgment is due when cruelty and hucksterism is promoted:
We’re always appreciative of feedback from our customers even, or perhaps especially, on challenging topics. Our goal as a company is to help all horse owners keep their horses happy and healthy.
We can assure you that our drive to do what’s best for the horse absolutely shapes the decisions we make as a business every day. SmartPak is committed to supporting all of the equine communities we serve and we are proud to support riders and horses from all levels, breeds, disciplines and backgrounds. We do our best not to judge others, but also acknowledge that with our ability to educate and inform comes a responsibility to showcase exemplary behavior wherever possible. We will absolutely pass your feedback along to the appropriate departments, and thank you for taking the time to reach out to us.
If there’s anything else that we can help you with, don’t hesitate to ask. We’re glad to be of assistance!
[QUOTE=alfonsina;8201965]
The response from Smartpak, bland,corporate, and non-committal. “We do our best not to judge others”? I think some judgment is due when cruelty and hucksterism is promoted:
We’re always appreciative of feedback from our customers even, or perhaps especially, on challenging topics. Our goal as a company is to help all horse owners keep their horses happy and healthy.
We can assure you that our drive to do what’s best for the horse absolutely shapes the decisions we make as a business every day. SmartPak is committed to supporting all of the equine communities we serve and we are proud to support riders and horses from all levels, breeds, disciplines and backgrounds. We do our best not to judge others, but also acknowledge that with our ability to educate and inform comes a responsibility to showcase exemplary behavior wherever possible. We will absolutely pass your feedback along to the appropriate departments, and thank you for taking the time to reach out to us.
If there’s anything else that we can help you with, don’t hesitate to ask. We’re glad to be of assistance![/QUOTE]
that’s just lawyer talk for, ‘we haven’t talked it over yet’
“We do our best not to judge others, but also acknowledge that with our ability to educate and inform comes a responsibility to showcase exemplary behavior wherever possible.”
What kind of wishy-washy PC sentence is that? We do our best not to judge others? Why not, if you are sponsoring their clinic/program/circus?
[QUOTE=Kwill;8201984]
“We do our best not to judge others, but also acknowledge that with our ability to educate and inform comes a responsibility to showcase exemplary behavior wherever possible.”
What kind of wishy-washy PC sentence is that? We do our best not to judge others? Why not, if you are sponsoring their clinic/program/circus?[/QUOTE]
It means, the person who answered the initial email doesn’t have the authority to make a change, which is normal and completely expected. But I bet it gets passed up the chain and discussed. Especially if there are more messages like that.
Their Corp-speak generic response in no way addresses the profanity, belittling treatment of owners and sex-laden jokiness with which he laces his performances. Can we assume they are ok with that being presented to children? It would be nice to hear where they stand on that.
Well, since this is sort of taking a life of its own, I have a few more things to add. Some is response to discussions off the foru, and some is response to comments made here.
I was not present for the CA welcome intro, in which I’m told there was a lot of explanation around philosophy, technique, and safety. I only witnessed the two sessions on the first day which dealt with problem horses, so in essence, I was seeing the worst of the worst in terms of equine attitude needing adjustment. As stated, the demo horses were hurting their owners. I did not stay for the second day, in which I’m told the mares were dramatically changed.
While I can’t speculate on why Clinton Anderson chose to address his critics as “tree huggers,” I can say that the tone with which he said it was the same kind of tone in which I’ve been called a bleeding heart liberal. (Because, just for the record I happen to be one of those too, even tho my heart doesn’t bleed outside of my chest nor do I hug trees.)
To reiterate, neither Clinton Anderson nor his demonstrator trainer got angry with the horses. The profanity was part of the showman-like banter. It may be a subtle distinction, but his wording was more like “this b**** is doing xyz” than addressing the horse with “You B****!” in anger. There were no comments of a sexual nature that I heard. The closest to that would have been calling the mare a word to describe a female prostitute and rhymes with bore. I saw no indication that Mr. Anderson was under the influence of anything like drugs or alcohol.
I submitted an email to the customer service queue at SmartPak.
[QUOTE=RiderInTheRain;8201657]
Hi ladymcts, this is your pony riding friend who went to the clinic with you. Fun to “meet” you here too!
… It seemed pretty obvious to me that his average fan is a middle aged lady who has returned to or started again with horses after a many year break, is perhaps overhorsed or scared and as such becomes desperate to find ANY method to “fix” her horse’s behavior.
… [/QUOTE]
waving Hi RITR!
Ironically, I’ve been in exactly that position, and in that desperation you describe I did buy the DIY kit of a certain other big name trainer who will go unnamed here. It didn’t solve our problems, but just as you suggest … finding a good local trainer in person was really the right recipe for us!
I do know that the horses Lyons used for his clinics were preselected before the show from a pool of possible horses and most had a bit more handling than was insinuated.
Sad to hear that CA has crossed to the snwowman side and thinks vulgarity makes him humorous or whatever. Not that I ever was a fan but I had seen some folks helped by his clinics when he was first starting out.
I am also submitting an e-mail to SmartPak. Of his sponsors, they are the only company I am currently purchasing from (not the SmartPaks, but I have been a fan of their line of tack and apparel). I’ve also purchased from Standlee in the past but have found other products in my current location to be better suited for my current horses.
Have to agree that I would not lump John Lyons with the above mentioned trainers. I have first hand experience with several of them, and although I am sure he could have his bad days, I have found him calm and compassionate with the horses. I also appreciated that he was willing to change and admit that some of the methods he used back in the day, he would no longer use at this point in his life with horses.
[QUOTE=alfonsina;8201965]
The response from Smartpak, bland,corporate, and non-committal. “We do our best not to judge others”? I think some judgment is due when cruelty and hucksterism is promoted:[/QUOTE]
Gimme a break. Anyone deciding to spend sponsorship dollars certainly is making a judgement. Or, at least, they are being discerning; the whole decision is an economically rational one. This isn’t the same thing as reassuring someone that a company isn’t, say, judgmental of people who are different skin colors or genders.
[QUOTE=Alagirl;8201972]
that’s just lawyer talk for, ‘we haven’t talked it over yet’[/QUOTE]
that is not lawyer talk. It’s MARKETING talk.
[QUOTE=Dispatcher;8202227]
that is not lawyer talk. It’s MARKETING talk.[/QUOTE]
Which IS lawyer talk.
CA has an “act.” The language (body and spoken) is all part of his “shtick.” Anybody here watch Comedy Central? Ever count and “average profanities per minute?” I tried but couldn’t count that high!
He’s got all the virtues and vices of the BNT (and he is one). As long as he puts “bums in seats” with his act he’ll continue; when he doesn’t draw anymore he’ll do something different.
IMO worrying about him is a double whammy of futility and irrelevance.
If you don’t like what he does don’t attend his programs, buy his stuff, etc. Ranting about them just raises BP.
G.
