Proud member of the Clinton Anderson "Tree Hugger Club"

[Kwill]

I quoted it from an old COTH thread on Parelli training in the UK. When I went back to the original source (a Parelli page), it was no longer on the page in any form.

So he’s removed the term from his current pages, it appears. But I think it caught on with his supporters, at any rate, and is now part of the lexicon, probably completely divorced from the original meaning.

It’s not surprising that these trainers make up terms and a language to make people feel a part of a team/group, complete with terms for those who are not part of the group, as a bonding experience. Creates loyalty and a feeling of being chosen and special. Basic psychology…

[equescool]

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8202600]
“…I still believe the old-school methods of (a) desensitize, (b) ground training, © longeing, (d) ground-driving, and finally (e) backing still work best. They were good enough for the U.S. Cavalry, and believe me, THEY turned out more useful horses that anyone could ride than any other outfit to date. Why go gimmicky when basic works better?”[/QUOTE]

Wise words, and true in my own experience. Recently I took a course (not about horses) where the teacher reminded us of the principles we had been taught in applying certain methods. “Always go back to the principle when in doubt,” she said. “That will lead you to the best method.”

Then I attended a Trauma-Focused Equine Assisted Psychotherapy conference a couple of weeks ago, and the speaker spoke about principles and techniques. Know the underlying principle, don’t just throw a technique out there, was the instruction.

It is a good one for horsemanship. Many people enter into horse ownership without having been raised around horses. I have ridden since I was seven and had over 4000 hrs in the saddle by the time I was seventeen. Then I raised them for twenty years, and they taught me a deeper understanding of their language. Part of their language is respect, and they expect me to respect myself and be clear in my messages to them.

I respect people who take the time to go to clinics and try to learn about how to work with their horses. I just hope they take their common sense with them.

[equescool]

What a classy and authentic reply, Donnie Steele (SmartPak). As a business owner, I respect the message a lot.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=Kwill;8203943]
I quoted it from an old COTH thread on Parelli training in the UK. When I went back to the original source (a Parelli page), it was no longer on the page in any form.

So he’s removed the term from his current pages, it appears. But I think it caught on with his supporters, at any rate, and is now part of the lexicon, probably completely divorced from the original meaning.

It’s not surprising that these trainers make up terms and a language to make people feel a part of a team/group, complete with terms for those who are not part of the group, as a bonding experience. Creates loyalty and a feeling of being chosen and special. Basic psychology…[/QUOTE]

That Pat Parelli took the term, “gunsel” from a B Western in the middle of the 20th century (as Guilherme says) makes much more sense. I’m sure the Yiddish male concubine thing had been lost by the time it got to those movie scripts.

[roseymare]

I have seen Parelli twice in the early 90’s. First with a horse and second horseless as a keynote speaker. I did not like his horse demonstration. I found it to be very traumatic for the horse. Even though he never touched that colt, he had him lathered and had fried his brain. I found it overkill.
As a keynote speaker however he was quite entertaining.
The part of his teachings/act about horses having a vernacular for people was a big part of his keynote speeches. It almost had a Baxter Black character to it. Very much an entertaining speech not as much teaching or trainings but more humorous and entertaining.
Somewhere along the way he began combining the two. Although I think there was and is much hypocrisy in his teachings.

[roseymare]

So from the original definition given by PP, gunsels were what horses call the folks who let them get away with nipping, pulling, and other spoiled horse behaviors. This would jive with my memory of that 1993 keynote speech. The horses were making fun of people who were scared of them.
Fast forward to today…from what I have seen that term now applies to PP followers! The most spoiled horses I have encountered seem to be in the hands of the PP followers…

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=roseymare;8205003]
So from the original definition given by PP, gunsels were what horses call the folks who let them get away with nipping, pulling, and other spoiled horse behaviors. This would jive with my memory of that 1993 keynote speech. The horses were making fun of people who were scared of them.
Fast forward to today…from what I have seen that term now applies to PP followers! The most spoiled horses I have encountered seem to be in the hands of the PP followers…[/QUOTE]

well, his groupies took it to mean all the people who have not accepted the koolaid yet…the unsavvy folks.

[roseymare]

Which I find really hypocritical!

[Alagirl]

[QUOTE=roseymare;8205010]
Which I find really hypocritical![/QUOTE]

amusing, really.

[roseymare]

Does anyone else have visions of these “gurus” sharing a meal and comparing notes on their “disciples”,accompanied by laughing and punctuated frequently with " you won’t believe what I was able to convince this one to do? And lots of head shaking and oh well look what I HAVE

[Denlynn36]

Soooo… A year later and we get this… Please keep contacting the sponsors.
Or don’t if you think he’s funny… Morals and values are not what they once were.
Please check out Buck Brannaman if you haven’t yet.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=1DhWU4y6wIs&t=9m5s

[wireweiners]

Goodness, he’s gotten fat. While he’s kind of an ass, I do agree in general with what he’s saying. You do have to be firm with stud colts and sometimes you do have to " knock the shit out of them". If you don’t you wind up with something like that yellow colt in the Buck film

[merrygoround]

I would send a copy of your original post to each and every one of the “Sponsors”.

They really should vet whomever they sponsor a bit more carefully. It does make one lose respect for them.

[PeteyPie]

[QUOTE=Denlynn36;8745741]
Soooo… A year later and we get this… Please keep contacting the sponsors.
Or don’t if you think he’s funny… Morals and values are not what they once were.
Please check out Buck Brannaman if you haven’t yet.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=1DhWU4y6wIs&t=9m5s[/QUOTE]

You know, I would not have commented on his training methods or ideas but I am just mystified why a clinician would be so insulting to women, especially since they must comprise the majority of his clients. From his dismissive remarks, one would think he only caters to elite riders at the very top levels of sport and has no time for newbies, older riders, or casual riders. In fact, those lower level and casual riders must comprise a large portion of his clientele – who else would buy the videos and attend the clinics? In addition, he has several videos featuring clients who seem to be less experienced.

But really, why not just stick to the subject of horse training and refrain from attacking potential customers? It is not only unprofessional, it is mean spirited:

This Clinton Anderson quote is from the youtube video above starting at around 10:30:

Now the women that are watching this, you know, I make fun of ‘em, these tree hugging idiots that ride in a bitless bridle and you know, they trail ride and, and you know, they’re, they’re close to nature. They hear what I just said and say, “That’s barbaric, how…?” They’ve never trained a stud horse in their friggin’ life and I wish they would 'cause they’d get killed and that would get rid of most of these people that annoy the shit out of me, okay?

So they’ve never trained a stud horse in their life, they’ve never trained one… their whole idea of accomplishment is the horse stands still at the mounting block like, “oh my god he stood still so I can get three mounting blocks one on top of the other and climb my big fat ass up there and get on.” They don’t know how to train a horse; they’re unrealistic; they’re idiots.

[wireweiners]

He looks like he’s gained a lot of weight. I wonder if he’s on some kind of meds. Those comments in the video about his core clientele were pretty nasty. Maybe he’s having some mental problems.

[GaitedGloryRider]

[QUOTE=wireweiners;8746389]
He looks like he’s gained a lot of weight. I wonder if he’s on some kind of meds. Those comments in the video about his core clientele were pretty nasty. Maybe he’s having some mental problems.[/QUOTE]

That video rolled across my FB feed a few days ago. I chuckled out loud a bit when he went on his tirade about fat women climbing up 3 mounting blocks because a mere second before that I was thinking to myself “damn, looks like he’s been hitting the Little Debbie Cakes hard lately!”

[DJohn]

:eek: Sounds like he just found this thread! :lol:

Personally, I could care less about the guy. However, I am seeing a similarity in his attitude and many of the male horse “trainers” out there. Are all of these men such great catches?! (Seriously, who would sleep with someone that speaks like that).

Give your sponsorship to Warwick Schiller, he’s a level-headed dude who doesn’t offend the majority of his client base with rants like that.

Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3eCJJKXdDE

[roseymare]

It is true though that if you nitpick at a stud you are asking for trouble.

I don’t care for his new a$$hole persona though…

[Silver_Silence]

Nothing constructive to add, but I did see this new clip the other day. CA makes me throw up in my mouth. Ugh.

ETA: A thousand times yes to Warwick. Have been following him for a number of years now, so wonderful to see so many people getting interested in what he does. His horsemanship is simple and fair. I’ve met and talked to both he and his wife and they are exactly in real life how they are on social media (and I couldn’t believe he even cared to ask me questions about me, and what I do for a living, etc). Not a thing fake about them ; there’s no stage Warwick. #STTDP

[Denlynn36]

Yes … You tube Warwick Schiller, if i spelled his name right, he his great.