[QUOTE=smokygirl;3434880]
You where them when you earn them. You don’t wear them until you do. Earning them is a big deal. It is disrespectful to anyone who has earned them to do otherwise, even if you are in another event.[/QUOTE]
Right. I understand that at a lot of hunts you have to earn them, and that at some you don’t. But there doesn’t seem to be a universal rule on that.
Seems like you are looking for wiggle room to do what you want and feel justified that you asked and found that there was no universal agreement on a rule that went against your desire.
Guess you can always find one person to take your side – so why bother to ask?
First off, your not the OP
Secondly, I was stating an opinion and there was nothing “less than charitable” about it. When you post a question on a forum it is
likely you will get some responses you don’t care for. If you don’t want to hear it and refuse to find any worth in an opposing opinion your wasting your own and everybody else’s time.
Lastly, so what if brown tops are appropriate for those w/o colors in SOME hunts? If one is genuinely concerned about presenting themselves in an honest manner it is likely they would choose not to wear apparel that might be offensive to even SOME foxhunters. Genuine concern for proper etiquette would really only require a few posters on this forum to state they would be offended. So why are you still asking?
…the previous poster hit the nail on the head:yes:
WilfredleBlanc is the original poster on the original thread. I started this thread here because I was getting responses from only a few fox hunting people and people seemed to have trouble distinguishing or being able to explain the rules.
One poster here (goodhors) mentioned that you better be a good rider to ‘live up to the boots’. While the poster did not say it, it seems in reference to wearing the boots while not in the hunt.
There are different views. Some are horribly offended that someone would do this while others are not. Some are astonished the other people may not know as much about fox hunting and are of the opinion that fox hunting was the origin of all other disciplines today. When asked for references for history, I have yet to be given any.
Everyone is entitled their opinion, but when rules are not clear and seem to have nothing to do with something else, inquiring minds want to know more. So opinions are asked and given. I appreciate the honest feedback.
If WilfredleBlanc did not appreciate the relevance of the boots, he would not have asked about their appropriateness. While some state ‘join a hunt and wait until you earn them’, that would be difficult for someone outside of a hunt area. Of course, in that case, they would be much less likely to be questioned at a horse show or event. Basically the consensus is that there is no consensus and how you will be treated by fellow competitors at a horse show all depends on who you meet.
First, it needs to be remembered that in each hunt, the Master(s) is/are the Final Word on attire. If a hunt says that members with colors wear pink coats and purple boots, then that’s what’s correct for that hunt.
That said, the rule for black boots with brown tops is those are the correct boots when one is wearing white breeches. And the garter straps need to be white to match the breeches. As has been noted, it is universally correct (I’m aware that some MFHs might not be up on history and tradition) for gentlemen without colors to wear white breeches with a black frock coat. In which case, they’d be needing brown tops on their boots.
Contrary to what one might be led to believe by reading some posts here, it is also perfectly correct for gentlemen with colors to wear a bowler, black formal three button hunting coat, buff or canary breeches, and PLAIN BLACK BOOTS (again, boots with brown tops ONLY go with white breeches). In some hunts, only staff wears scarlet, no scarlet is worn by field members.
So, in summary, the boots are not earned. Colors and/or buttons are earned. If those colors and/or buttons are worn with either a frock coat or a scarlet coat, then white breeches are required. If white breeches are required, then boots with brown tops are required.
And, as has been noted, beginning decades ago, the evolution of brown tops in the show jumping and eventing world took its own path, with the attire tradition of scarlet coats and white breeches to represent one’s country requiring brown tops (because white breeches are being worn).
[QUOTE=LookinSouth;3435290]
When you post a question on a forum it is
likely you will get some responses you don’t care for. If you don’t want to hear it and refuse to find any worth in an opposing opinion your wasting your own and everybody else’s time.[/QUOTE]
But obviously I do want to hear all responses. You seem to presume that the entire point of the question was to fertilize a self-serving rationalization. I’m just rebutting this apparent presumption.
First, presenting oneself honestly and avoiding offense are quite separate imperatives. If one assumes that palliating the feelings of some hunters takes precedence over his own fashion sense, and that this same subset of hunters are the final arbiters of sartorial etiquette in all equestrian disciplines, then of course, the interests of all will be served by his not offending them. But if one doesn’t share those assumptions, it doesn’t indicate dishonesty on his part.
I say, “Enough already on this topic!”
The two OPS on the two boards are from the “Yes, but…” school of argument. The import (or the relative lack thereof) of colors and top boots has been explained to them ad nasueum.
You know, as well as I, that they will do what they please and feel grand about it.
I’d vote for spending the money on lessons to improve their riding, but I expect they wil be all tricked out in hunt attire ASAP.
Can you tell me why the expression “horseback rider” is used. Are there some horsefront riders about?
I watched all 3 hrs 58 minutes of the XC part of eventing at the Olympics, and all I could conclude about the boots is that the norms of foxhunting don’t apply there. It definitely seemed to be the case that hunt top boots were worn with white breeches, but black top boots were, too, in some cases–not with beige or buff breeches, which would apparently be correct at many or most hunts.
That said, I’ve definitely concluded that the route guaranteed to create no friction with anyone is to get black dress boots and wait until some hunt or another asks me to attach brown tops.
[QUOTE=Equibrit;3437389]
Can you tell me why the expression “horseback rider” is used. Are there some horsefront riders about?[/QUOTE]
It’s a curious usage, for sure.
rider on the back of a horse? (to differentiate from all who ride on the stomach you know :))
I think it comes from the same school of thought as “Tuna-fish”, which needs differentiating from “tuna-bird” and “tuna-mammal”.
“ATM machine” is a close relative from the school of redundant redundancy, but a slightly different form.
[QUOTE=tangledweb;3439592]
I think it comes from the same school of thought as “Tuna-fish”, which needs differentiating from “tuna-bird” and “tuna-mammal”.
“ATM machine” is a close relative from the school of redundant redundancy, but a slightly different form.[/QUOTE]
BurglARISed is another - whatever happened to poor little burgled?
[QUOTE=HORSEBACKRIDER;3437308]
I’d vote for spending the money on lessons to improve their riding, but I expect they wil be all tricked out in hunt attire ASAP.[/QUOTE]
I’d vote for you enrolling in an anger management class, my dear.
[QUOTE=Equibrit;3437389]
Can you tell me why the expression “horseback rider” is used. Are there some horsefront riders about?[/QUOTE]
My thought on this expression, was speaker wanted to be specific. Riders coming might be on bicycles, donkeys or mules, camels! A rider or riders, could be approaching in a vehicle, carriage, wagon, cart.
We (horse owners) tend to think of a rider ALWAYS being on a horse, but that is not true in all instances. So if some one is visible or coming in, the “horseback rider” phrase gives you all the information the observer has. General information. They might have said a cowboy, Calvary soldier or Indian, Pony Express rider is coming, if they can tell from looking. Sometimes you just can’t see that far for details, but you want to pass on as much information as possible once, to save repeating yourself.
Other locales, foreign countries, any kind of rider approaching might be a signal for alarm. Bandits or trouble coming so you need to know details FAST!
I would want to quickly know more, if all I heard was “There is a rider coming!”
Nothing more complicated than the rider is on the horse’s back, IMO.
The point the non-Americans are trying to make is that the “Back” is redundant. “Horseback rider” gives no more information than “Horse rider”, unless as speculated, there are an enthusiastic community of horsefront riders hanging on in remote parts of the Ozarks.
But back to the topic at hand, if tan top boots cause offense because they imply that the wearer has been granted colours by a hunt, wouldn’t the wearing of hunt caps cause more offense, because they imply that the wearer is either a master of hounds or a former master?
Or am I just stirring the pot now? 
Tsk tsk
[QUOTE=WilfredLeblanc;3440493]
I’d vote for you enrolling in an anger management class, my dear.[/QUOTE]
No anger here, my dear.
Just commenting on the tedium of the discussion.
Hard to work up to anger about goofiness on a bulletin board.
Hunt caps are traditionally worn by hunt servants.
good grief!..
Oh good grief! Tangled Web & Equibrit? LEAVE IT!!
(For those of you who don’t hunt…this term is what hunt staff yell at a hound who’s not letting go of a scent line or is on the wrong scent line or is doing something that isn’t productive to the hunt…the idea is to get the hound to change his direction or change his mind and leave what he’s doing alone and go on to something better or more fun!)
Wilfred? You sound like a fun person - I’m hoping you’ll get to go hunting someday and I know you’ll have fun…Best wishes and happy hunting!!
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