Really, Dressage Hub?

[Scribbler]

@trubandloki

Thank you for your post, Scribbler. Interesting point. It explains quite a bit.

Thanks. I try not to engage when I see this downward spiral starting.

[Manni01]

@Scribbler

I did not intend this to apply to any specific individuals.

What I was trying to say was what looks to other posters like “lying about what they’ve said” might not be deliberate lying.

To readers the posts sound contradictory and even aggressive, but the poster doesn’t understand how that might be, and it spirals into mutual antagonism. And yes this can feel like an attack to the poster because they don’t understand how their posts are being read.

I certainly see all kinds of online forums go badly off track because of the things I’ve described above.

Is why I am not on many online forums.

I find it however interesting to watch and analyze how it happens.

Then I wonder why you answer to somebody accusing 2 specific people of lying and explain why they might not be lying and then tell me that you are not talking about specific individuals (me). And really lying is something very specific it is not a different opinion or a way to express something.

[Ghazzu]

Manni, you’d be better just dropping this line of the conversation. Because it is becoming a perfect example of the behavior being discussed, either on one hand or the other, and I suspect you are fully aware of that.

[trubandloki]

@Manni01

Then I wonder why you answer to somebody accusing 2 specific people of lying and explain why they might not be lying and then tell me that you are not talking about specific individuals (me). And really lying is something very specific it is not a different opinion or a way to express something.

To me Scribbler is defending people with an erratic posting style so it might make more sense to stop fighting with them about something that some would say is sticking up for you.

[Manni01]

@Ghazzu

Manni, you’d be better just dropping this line of the conversation. Because it is becoming a perfect example of the behavior being discussed, either on one hand or the other, and I suspect you are fully aware of that.

In this specific case I am really confused… SendenHorse wrote explicitly that Csaper and me were lying. Are you telling me thats wrong?? she did not write that??? And then Scribbler wrote that you have to understand those people because they don’t really intend to lie, but its kind of a cultural thing because they don’t have the values everybody else have and therefore they don’t get the right posting style and get defensive when they have problems with it…

If he did not intend to include Csaper and me in that analysis, why didn’t he say so??? Sorry I think everybody here is defending something which happened by telling me it didn’t happen and then its my fault that I don’t understand…

And nobody called Csaper a witch and nobody said she and me are lying… I know its all my fault…

[SendenHorse]

@Scribbler

So someone might seem to be lying about what they said but really they don’t know what they said, and can’t stand at a distance from their own writing to see how others might take it that way.

If those sort of posters became a major trend on COTH I expect I would drift away because I do find it tiresome.

I am not out to have any personal vendetta against Manni… I stand behind my assesment, but take what i say if it works for you, I don’t care of others share my opinions.

I don’t know at this point if this is actually malicious, a game, or if she can’t reason very well. At some point, well, it is not worth it to be here.

I know of 5 people who have stopped posting as well.

At any rate, I have my [personal ignore button] activated so I never plan to interact with her again.

[McGurk]

I do think there may be one legitimate misunderstanding here. What confused me with the cross-posting here and in the help forum is that Manni was alleging name calling, specifically, that someone called csaper a witch. What a poster did post earlier in this thread, in response to learning a member was banned, is “Ding, dong, the witch is dead!” in an ironic reference to the movie “The Wizard of Oz.” This is a fairly common bit of American idiom, meaning “Whew, glad that person is gone!” not meaning that the a.) the person is a witch or b.) that the person is dead.

So if someone misunderstood that as name calling, eh, okay, maybe I get it.

As for the rest of it, I am really, really tired of all the arguments about posting style and being “mean” and words we can’t say on the forum. I joined this forum for the incredible community of knowledgeable horse people, the no BS atmosphere and the fact that poseurs and fools are not suffered for long, if at all.

If all the post reporting, thread derailing, criticisms of posting style, accusations that frauds and poseurs have been driven off the forum unfairly, and puppet moderating by members changes this community to one where we can’t speak frankly, speak our truth and call out BS when we see it, well, then it won’t be a community I’ll want to be a part of much longer.

[BigMama1]

@Ghazzu

Manni, you’d be better just dropping this line of the conversation. Because it is becoming a perfect example of the behavior being discussed, either on one hand or the other, and I suspect you are fully aware of that.

Putting on the popcorn now…

[Scribbler]

@SendenHorse

I know of 5 people who have stopped posting as well.

At any rate, I have my [personal ignore button] activated so I never plan to interact with her again.

I don’t think these kinds of posters are in the majority and they tend to crop up on specific kinds of threads. As IRL things are indeed much better if you don’t engage

[Gestalt]

@McGurk

If all the post reporting, thread derailing, criticisms of posting style, accusations that frauds and poseurs have been driven off the forum unfairly, and puppet moderating by members changes this community to one where we can’t speak frankly, speak our truth and call out BS when we see it, well, then it won’t be a community I’ll want to be a part of much longer.

There are a lot of knotted knickers on this board now. In the good old days there were some knuckle sandwiches thrown and no one was banned or warned. Lots of whiners whining now. I’ve been posting on a few other boards to get a foothold in, once I’m an established member I’m gone from here.

[Scribbler]

@Manni01

Then I wonder why you answer to somebody accusing 2 specific people of lying and explain why they might not be lying and then tell me that you are not talking about specific individuals (me). And really lying is something very specific it is not a different opinion or a way to express something.

Which would you prefer, to be thought of as misunderstood or thought of as lying?

[Manni01]

@Scribbler

Which would you prefer, to be thought of as misunderstood or thought of as lying?

Ok if you have proof of me lying then tell me exactly when I did that! I personally think its pretty serious to accuse somebody to be a liar

[Manni01]

@McGurk

I do think there may be one legitimate misunderstanding here. What confused me with the cross-posting here and in the help forum is that Manni was alleging name calling, specifically, that someone called csaper a witch. What a poster did post earlier in this thread, in response to learning a member was banned, is “Ding, dong, the witch is dead!” in an ironic reference to the movie “The Wizard of Oz.” This is a fairly common bit of American idiom, meaning “Whew, glad that person is gone!” not meaning that the a.) the person is a witch or b.) that the person is dead.

So if someone misunderstood that as name calling, eh, okay, maybe I get it.

As for the rest of it, I am really, really tired of all the arguments about posting style and being “mean” and words we can’t say on the forum. I joined this forum for the incredible community of knowledgeable horse people, the no BS atmosphere and the fact that poseurs and fools are not suffered for long, if at all.
…
If all the post reporting, thread derailing, criticisms of posting style, accusations that frauds and poseurs have been driven off the forum unfairly, and puppet moderating by members changes this community to one where we can’t speak frankly, speak our truth and call out BS when we see it, well, then it won’t be a community I’ll want to be a part of much longer.

For me its not necessary to even mention the word witch if you don’t mean it. If you use it, there is a reason for it. very easy, And also you don’t call anybody a liar if you don’t mean it…

[McGurk]

Again, no one called anyone a witch.

Didn’t happen.

A poster commented on news of a banned poster by saying “Ding Dong the witch is dead!”

As I’ve explained above, and as BigMama has explained in your other (hijacked) thread, this is an ironic cultural reference. To a scene in a classic movie.

It is not calling someone a witch, anymore than it’s calling someone dead.

If this is the level at which you take offense, perhaps internet forums are too robust for your sensibilities.

[Manni01]

@McGurk

Again, no one called anyone a witch.

Didn’t happen.

A poster commented on news of a banned poster by saying “Ding Dong the witch is dead!”

As I’ve explained above, and as BigMama has explained in your other thread, this is an ironic cultural reference. To a scene in a classic movie.

It is not calling someone a witch, anymore than it’s calling someone dead.

If this is the level at which you take offense, perhaps internet forums are too robust for your sensibilities.

maybe they are…

[BigMama1]

@McGurk

Again, no one called anyone a witch.

Didn’t happen.

A poster commented on news of a banned poster by saying “Ding Dong the witch is dead!”

As I’ve explained above, and as BigMama has explained in your other (hijacked) thread, this is an ironic cultural reference. To a scene in a classic movie.

It is not calling someone a witch, anymore than it’s calling someone dead.

If this is the level at which you take offense, perhaps internet forums are too robust for your sensibilities.

And then to go over and hijack a thread in the help forum to whine about it there too? Honestly people overreact to the strangest things. I guess that’s what happens when someone appoints themselves as the forum police. Still, it makes for some entertainment on a cold winter night I guess. [shrugs shoulders]

[Angela_Freda]

@BigMama1

And then to go over and hijack a thread in the help forum to whine about it there too? Honestly people overreact to the strangest things. I guess that’s what happens when someone appoints themselves as the forum police. Still, it makes for some entertainment on a cold winter night I guess. [shrugs shoulders]

All without warning everyone to get popcorn at the store, no less!!

[Scribbler]

@Manni01

Ok if you have proof of me lying then tell me exactly when I did that! I personally think its pretty serious to accuse somebody to be a liar

Ok. So let’s do a little textual analysis here.

A poster says some other posters lie about what they have said previously, meaning they contradict themselves or deny that they’ve said things.

The problem as described is that some posters will make a statement, then apparently deny on the next page that they ever said such a thing.

I forward a theory where I say that in general such problems can come about where posters don’t fully understand how their posts are being read by others. They deny they said xyz because they feel they didn’t intend to say xyz. But everyone who reads their post thinks yes, they did say xyz. Chaos ensues. Poster feels ganged up on because why is everybody insisting she said xyz?

I did not call anyone a liar. I presented the idea of misunderstanding as a plausible explanation.

I am not addressing any specific case because obviously I don’t know why any given person is contradicting themselves. Maybe some posters change their minds. Maybe some posters have wild mood swings. Maybe some posters knowingly contradict themselves because they think it doesn’t matter or they just want to stir the pot.

My suggestion here was just looking at people’s reading and comprehension skills.

Anyhow that my post could be taken as calling a specific person a liar is interesting, and perhaps in itself a good example of a poster responding to a tangential point and missing the main claim.

I think this needs to be my last word on the subject as I don’t know how many times I want to make the exact same point over and over.

[Manni01]

@Scribbler

Ok. So let’s do a little textual analysis here.

A poster says some other posters lie about what they have said previously, meaning they contradict themselves or deny that they’ve said things.

The problem as described is that some posters will make a statement, then apparently deny on the next page that they ever said such a thing.

I forward a theory where I say that in general such problems can come about where posters don’t fully understand how their posts are being read by others. They deny they said xyz because they feel they didn’t intend to say xyz. But everyone who reads their post thinks yes, they did say xyz. Chaos ensues. Poster feels ganged up on because why is everybody insisting she said xyz?

I did not call anyone a liar. I presented the idea of misunderstanding as a plausible explanation.

I am not addressing any specific case because obviously I don’t know why any given person is contradicting themselves. Maybe some posters change their minds. Maybe some posters have wild mood swings. Maybe some posters knowingly contradict themselves because they think it doesn’t matter or they just want to stir the pot.

My suggestion here was just looking at people’s reading and comprehension skills.

Anyhow that my post could be taken as calling a specific person a liar is interesting, and perhaps in itself a good example of a poster responding to a tangential point and missing the main claim.

I think this needs to be my last word on the subject as I don’t know how many times I want to make the exact same point over and over.

I have no problems with your little textual analysis in general and I agree totally with it… BUT… in this specific case I was adressed by this poster specifically… So if you wonder why I feel adressed I am a little amazed and assume you don’t really think how things you write might affect peoples feelings…

[Manni01]

@BigMama1

And then to go over and hijack a thread in the help forum to whine about it there too? Honestly people overreact to the strangest things. I guess that’s what happens when someone appoints themselves as the forum police. Still, it makes for some entertainment on a cold winter night I guess. [shrugs shoulders]

Yes and you can write as many posts as you like, I think its pretty unreal to assume that that original post with the nice quote “Ding dong the witch is dead” was not supposed to be mean…
I think its amazing how intense people try to prove that that was a cultural thing which doesn’t mean anything… Whatever it was in this context it was simply supposed to be mean.
Maybe in a specific cultural way… but it was supposed to be mean…

And exactly about this was my question in the help forum. And I still think its bad style to be mean towards banned posters. Even if the meanness is wrapped up in a specific cultural way