Refusing when…

[enjoytheride]

To me it sounds like the horse has moved down the road because it’s a stopper. A 1.40 horse should not stop at a ground pole or a cross rail if all you do is drop your eye. It should go. I’m not expecting it to take joke after joke but a 1.40 horse should be able to make it over a cross rail with both it’s eyes closed.

As an older adult amateur stoppers teach me to pull and roll into a ball, not ride better. Adult ammys don’t need to be on a horse that needs a tactful ride over a cross rail. Especially considering how much she probably paid for this horse.

Should we be expected to be working on our skills and partnership and do our own part? Totally. But the horse knows what it’s job is and the OP isn’t creating a great sin by dropping their eye, it can help the rider out.

[Aussie_2020]

A tactful rider? Is it too much to ask that a rider simply sit up and keep legs on? Is that really so hard? Once you learn it, it becomes second nature and a horse can teach you that lesson.

[fordtraktor]

If it has only happened 3 times in 4 months I wouldn’t worry at all and just try not to drop her in front of jumps going forward. She is probably confused as to what you even wanted her to do.

[endlessclimb]

I’d give this horse a hug and say “thanks for teaching me to ride better.” Thank god she’s calling your bluff at the canter needed for a ground pole or a cross rail, rather than saving it all up to start stopping from the canter needed for the bigger stuff.

[enjoytheride]

For someone learning to canter ground poles and cross rails? Yes. That’s why they belong on seeing eye horses. They need a steady horse who finds it’s own distances (and really, there aren’t many bad distances over ground poles or cross rails, the horse should be able to sort itself out as the rider figures out things like sitting up and keeping their leg on and seeing a distance.

[Aussie_2020]

I think you need to read all the OP’s replies, she is not a beginning rider and the horse is not a dirty stopper.

[good_booie]

LOL. Maybe we need to get Lance Stroll a Prius. iykyk

[CBoylen]

They can, but they don’t. They’re actually generally more cautious the lower the jump. Generally speaking. Obviously not all jumpers are the same.

[ThreeWishes]

My horse is a lovely hunter. Shortly after menopause I lost a great deal of fitness and muscle. If I leaned at all at the jump he’ would either slow down and die or just go around. It wasn’t often. But it was enough of a wake up call to get me into the gym and working with weights and on my core. And also to learn to keep my body back, let the jump come to me and realize it’s the horses job to jump the fence. It’s my job to guide him there and then allow it to happen. Leaning into any size fence is not useful

[dmveventer]

@enjoytheride

Adult ammys don’t need to be on a horse that needs a tactful ride over a cross rail.

As this thread has proven, there’s no one-size-fits-all for what an adult ammy does or doesn’t need. There’s a huge range of abilities, ages, and goals that make up the adult ammy crowd. I’m one, currently working with a green horse who did spend a long time needing a tactful ride to a crossrail. It’s made me a much better rider and built skills I’ll be able to use towards my long-term riding goals.

OP has gotten a lot of good responses here, but ultimately it comes down to their read of the situation, their goals, and what they’re looking to get out of their riding time right now. There’s no right or wrong answer here.

[Alterrain]

Regarding the stopping at crossrails- could she have been poled? A lot of pros will pole at a tiny crossrail, while simultaneously riding “bad” to it to get an intentional miss. She might anticipate what is coming.

[Rumorhasit93]

I had an FEI horse that would stop at cross rails because he was poled (obviously not by me…but by a well known Irish rider I digress). This horse doesn’t sound like a real stopper, let alone one that was poled, because she doesn’t stop often enough per the OP. Another tell tale is poled horses are wary of people standing next to the jumps, so how OP’s horse feels about that is a pretty good indicator.

The OP’s case just sounds like a horse that needs that European/professional consistent, upright position. Honestly, I wished I’d learned how to sit back (but like REALLY back) sooner. It’s helped my riding immensely.

[AAHunterGal]

@Amberley

You will be a much better rider for having this horse and learning to sit up, keep your leg on and communicate with your horse and not just check out before a jump.

I’ll have to speak up a bit for the hunter riders out there and say even though it looks like you “just sit there and don’t do anything,” you of course definitely don’t. When you properly “drop” a horse at a jump, it’s only AFTER you know you’ve set them up for the perfect distance, and even then only a stride away. Get them to where they need to be, give them their heads, and then stay out of their way. It’s 100% not about “just sitting there” or giving up or not supporting the horse regardless of where you put them.

Plus, you of course train them from the start to understand what it means when you give them that freedom before the jump. If you take the time with this piece, many horses can safely jump in this style over a range of heights.

Of course different styles need different rides, but I also don’t think that any good hunter trainer out there would tell you to ride a horse who has always been a pro’s 1.40 jumper the same way you would ride an A/O horse.

[IPEsq]

So this made me think of a post I saw yesterday. Catch, the licensed Holsteiner stallion has been standing in the US for a couple of years. He had shown with Rolf-Göran Bengtsson up to 1.45m. The current owners just posted a clip on IG featuring John French riding Catch, who is supposed to resume his sport career in the states this year. Obviously he is an excellent rider all around, but he did his hunter thing with Catch and looked super. Now, I’m sure the OP tipping and praying for the long spot is no John French, but it is a symptom of some past baggage of some sort if not hinting at a soundness issue that the OP’s horse can’t handle any of that to a ground pole.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DCRfifWpK-u/

[AAHunterGal]

@IPEsq

So this made me think of a post I saw yesterday. Catch, the licensed Holsteiner stallion has been standing in the US for a couple of years. He had shown with Rolf-Göran Bengtsson up to 1.45m. The current owners just posted a clip on IG featuring John French riding Catch, who is supposed to resume his sport career in the states this year. Obviously he is an excellent rider all around, but he did his hunter thing with Catch and looked super.

I’ll amend that - unless you’re John French.

[foursocks]

@IPEsq

Now, I’m sure the OP tipping and praying for the long spot is no John French, but it is a symptom of some past baggage of some sort if not hinting at a soundness issue that the OP’s horse can’t handle any of that to a ground pole.

Yes, except that it has only happened three times in four months, to reiterate a point the OP made above. Therefore, applying Occam’s razor might give us a simple explanation of: on those three occasions the horse didn’t feel supported and got confused when the communication she was expecting went away.

[Midge]

@foursocks

Yes, except that it has only happened three times in four months,

This is the part that is confusing to me. She says “The horse will refuse a jump with me if I drop my eye, lean even a little at it (if I see a long one, I have a bad habit of leaning in anticipation of it) and/or take my leg off.”

Assuming she’s jumping two or three or four times a week, that’s a lot of specificity for three stops in four months. Three stops in four months just doesn’t seem like so many that I’d be worried about it. If she only jumped three times in four months, maybe, but this sounds like the OP makes a mistake less than one time a month. That is John French territory.

[fivestrideline]

We all know you hate the hunters and disdain anyone who dares step foot in that arena, but let’s keep the sweeping generalizations to ourselves, yeah?

[Midge]

@Amberley

You aren’t out watching

I know at least three posters on this thread personally. We all still go to the shows.

[fivestrideline]

@Amberley

Most of the frequent posters here are in their 60s and 70s or older. Things have changed. You aren’t out watching these kids being taught horrendously bad riding every day anymore.

Hmm. Not I, said the 20-something with boots on the ground (and a live feed when the boots are off).

Again. Sweeping generalizations.