Speaking as someone who learned to ride in England, 50 years ago, most of us really aren’t that great. Just as most of any nation, isn’t that great. Maybe with a more structured approach to dressage and seat training at the start of my riding life, I might be further along than I am now half a century after my first riding lesson–which I remember vividly, by the way 
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It’s true, we see the whole spectrum of our riding compatriots, but the only “foreigners” we see riding are televised high end competition!
This would be true anywhere I assume!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RV_-ldCLHiY&feature=youtu.be
@Scribbler not sure whether you actually watched the video. Would you consider this a luxury situation for the kids??? It’s probably about 10 bucks per lesson. That is a typical average riding lesson in Germany IMO
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Interesting. How are lessons so cheap? Are they state subsidized?
Riding is pretty much the only sport in North America that isn’t heavily subsidized by municipal government but has stayed fully in the private sector.
Most stables can’t afford to give lessons at under $50 an hour where I live.
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These kids have more than I did. They are riding in an indoor, so yes it is a luxury situation. The average lesson around here $40 and the good high end trainers are around $100 a lesson.
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Ok, maybe it is a luxury situation, but I have never seen a situation like that in Florida. All the lessons I see are single lessons. I don’t think any parent would even tolerate to see their kid together with 8 other kids in the ring… If you want it cheap you need to accept some things.
And no the lesson horses do not look like perfect schoolmasters to me. They are suitable and safe because of the side reins…
And I really don’t understand the concerns that the horses need to be trained to go in side reins… My personal experience is you put them on without a person riding the horse and then you look what happens. You adjust the side reins accordingly, lunge the horse with them and then you are good to go…
I lunge my young horse always with side reins… Its perfect for her. She loves to go in side reins. And I BTW (thats my personal option) I don’t like vienna reins… They are too floppy for me… I prefer side reins…
And I really don’t understand the whole uproar about the sidereins anyhow. I was thinking about them lately because I had 2 situations here where I thought side reins are useful. First was a 6 year old on a pony who had not control at all about the pony and the second was a beginner adult rider riding an older lesson horse which was stumbling because it got no help from the rider at all. I thought that was dangerous…
Not sure whether this horse was suitable as a lesson horse, but I assume for the horse its better to have the sidereins, because they give him a frame it can adjust to…
And then I saw the video and thought I might post my ideas about side reins…
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If a horse stumbles ridden on a loose rein then it isn’t safe to ride, let alone in a lesson by a beginner. Can’t think that side reins would help.
Btw when I cited a cost of $50 per lesson, that is in a kids group lesson of about 4 or 5 kids on lessons n horses. That is standard size for group lessons here. Private lessons at lesson barns are much more expensive.
We do have part time coaches doing private lessons on your own horse which can be cheaper than lessn barns, but those coaches aren’t trying to run a barn or indeed to make a living at it.
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I agree, that a lesson horse which stumbles is not safe anyhow…I haven’t seen it, the rider just told me that it happened, but I saw her riding and although she is doing pretty well already regarding her age (in her 50s and just started a couple of months ago) there is no way she is able to support the horse in any way…
You can’t support a horse that stumbles.
I did once ride a lesson horse that would stumble a bit unless you kept her up and off the forehand. It worried me but she was a good trooper otherwise. I would not do it now.
Sidereins would have been no help on this horse and I think would have been actively dangerous.
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I’m half tempted to go back to remedial work in side reins — work on me and ignore the horse for a while. I have postural problems and can be handsy!
wish I grew up in a better riding system
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Me too, NS. Me too…
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This assumes straight SR work for every horse…
manni rides WBs.
If the vienna reins are floppy the horse isn’t through.
I’ve done heaps of research on the physics of each style of rein, the attachment side (hint- there are balancing reins that go to the girth and then vienna which go through the leg- totally different mechanics)- also if you attach the straight SR to a surcingle rings up higher vs on a saddle girth, how much poll pressure each style exhibits, how they work on the bars, etc
Also some breeds and horses are not suitable to go in straight SR- shoulder style, neck style, prone to BTV, etc
I grew up with straight side reins, German, but my exposure to a variety of breeds/styles/needs has me re-think this.
So I agree if I was Manni this would be ideal. there is no need to change if the warmblood is happy in SR and has been doing it since age 3, doesn’t curl, and isn’t too hot of a breed.
“safe because of side reins”-- I think creating a possibly (?) restrictive head is THE most dangerous thing you can do, but I’ve admittedly seen some bad things. I also like a horse to be able to put the nose OUT at least an inch or two and I refuse to do anything deep.
Interesting thread though, I ride hotter horses so I have to carefully apply what works.
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I think you missed just about everything in this topic and make it personal again… what does it matter what type of horse you are me is riding??
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I think that it is horse dependent as well. Most of these lesson horses are probably decently schooled and tolerant.
I don’t agree with “safe because of side reins” because I also think that restricting the horse can be dangerous. Maybe not common to cause accident, but it can happen. I really don’t believe in allowing children/beginners to show in side reins. In order to compete they must have already passed that stage in my opinion and be able to ride the horse without an aid such as side reins.
I live in Germany and German vs. American “logic” and horse keeping culture is slightly different. I have not seen lessons for 10 Euro here, and lessons can be individual or group. Most of us take individual lessons. IME lessons/clinics do cost a little less in comparison to what I see/hear about most people paying in America.
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No, I don’t think that’s personal.
I think the difference between breeds and types of horses is a legitimate concern.
I would not use side reins on the average American TB, particularly not one off the track, because they would have a tendency to brace or lean on them and stay hollow/inverted. Certain TBs that have had correct dressage training from the start might be okay, but you’re talking about a horse that is sensitive, forward and usually has to be carefully encouraged to work through it’s back correctly - the would learn to use the SR as a crutch pretty quickly.
I also would avoid them on Arabs. Now, I do know of some very successful Arabians in dressage, but as a breed or type, they tend to want to go BTV at the slightest provocation, and the challenge of dressage work with them is getting them to go forward into the connection. I suspect Morgans are similar, but have no personal experience of them.
Purpose bred dressage horses, that is, warmbloods, do not have the same traits, therefore not the same concerns. They work from back to front and move through their backs much more easily and readily - it’s one of many reasons they dominate in dressage.
So a technique that you’ve used successfully on every horse you’ve ridden and trained, when every one was a similar breed/type/temperament, might be a mistake on a horse of an entirely different type.
This is mostly academic, because I don’t think Manni is going to give up warmbloods for OTTTBs anytime soon.
But in giving advice and suggestions to a diverse group of horseman, it’s wise to take into consideration that others may not have the same experience/same type of horses.
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I’ll press my modified {personal ignore button} because I love this topic and I think this thread has a good intrinsic value.
So let’s talk about the pros and cons, shall we?
Triangle/Lauffer/Balancing SR:
Sliding action
better for horses with the tendency to go BTV,
Good for rehabbing curlers/draw reins
Do not connect under the legs, so less down action on the poll.
Best for teaching lift of abs/thorasic sling
Less tendnecy to hang
Best mimic of riders hands, since they work more up/out
Vienna/Draw reins:
I don’t tend to like these, they go through the front legs and can create a closed posture
they work on the poll more than Lauffer
They can be good for hevy crested horses, judifically used
They can be too much pressure for light necked horses like saddlebreds, arbs
Possibly can create too much down pressure on heavy shouldered horses like QH, drafts- those do better with flexions/in hand, no reins, or double longing
Straight SR are good for “pure of heart” horses that have less baggage, and are not prone to being overly fussy
Can be good for those that are light mouthed and prefer to dilly dally and need to have more comfort of a hand-shake (Same horses that like dropped nosebands and mullen mouths for example)
Best application is on a ringed surcingle
Flexions/in hand work is the closest to riding, and teaches the most about contact. This can be done in a more tailored way.
These are my PERSONAL thoughts after applying longing to many breeds and learning about actions and reins. They are not meant to be a doctrine, or what I think everyone should do.
I realize WBs can come in any category, so my breed talk is more to make it clear what type of horse I am talking about.
Also, horses need different things at different times. I have had one start in a mullen/straight and progress to lauffer/KK bits as time went on
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So this might explain my inital posts on this thread and why straight SR make up a very small % of my use of them. Have a super holiday everyone!
I loved your other post about how you learned how to sit a big trot with side reins…
This post I do not agree with at all…
Again something personal and a assumption which is as wrong as it can be…
I don’t even know how to start to get this confession sorted out… (and I apologize in advance, not all the things I am mentioning later on are connected to your post…)
First of all, I would like to know why you assume that I don’t ride OTTB´s… Do you have any proof for that??? I can tell you right now you are pretty wrong about that
And then I would also like to know why you think side reins are only for warmbloods??? I believe that is an assumption which is wrong…
In this thread there are 2 things which are tricky to deal with.
Some people have no experience at all with side reins (or very limited experience) and make a lot of assumptions about them. These assumptions have no foundation because they are just assumptions…
The next thing is that people are taking the side reins as a program and then make assumptions what could go wrong or good or whatever… This is really the trickiest part… side reins are a tool within a program… They are not a program itself… They are very useful for specific purposes (I thought you found that out…) but they are not a miracle. And because they are a tool within a program, they can be used for many types of horses. Also for American TB´s I agree with you if you put side reins on a TB and don’t do anything else they will brace and stay hollow. But I would bet the same would happen if you put them on a WB and don’t do anything else… As I said before, side reins are a tool… They have to be introduced to the horse within a program… Maybe different horse types require different ways of introduction. But TB´s will have no problems with side reins if they are introduced correctly…
I remember about our lesson horses many years ago… If a new lesson horse arrived at the barn there was usually not a huge history known about them. Because they were mainly bought because they were cheap. So the trainer put side reins or a martingale on them and in the beginning a stronger rider and looked what happened… And usually it worked for all kinds of horses… Its not about the horse but about how you introduce it and how you use it…
For example I have a very high spirited young mare the side reins helped her very much to find her rhythm…
Great that you are living in Germany right now… Maybe ask around…
I just googled a little about pricing of lessons and it was quite interesting…
I did find 10 Euro for a group lesson with your own horse and 15 Euro for a Lesson horse… So ok a little more expensive then I guessed… But still affordable…
In my area I pay 30 Euro for a group lesson with our Area Trainer (he has ridden up to GP and trained Riders up to GP. (he is training the regional teams as well and I recently participated in a Dressage course where I payed 60 Euro per lesson (2 persons in one lesson) with a lesson horse, which was an approved stallion trained up to PSG.
Not sure where you live in Germany of course there are regional differences.
And you can have your opinion about side reins and using them for shows… I guess the German Federation has different opinions about it, because Children/ beginners do show in them in the lowest levels… And for the higher levels you need to pass a certification anyhow as you probably know… And yes those are without side reins.
Perfect, I really look forward to not have to read personal posts with wrong assumptions about me any more… I support your personal ignore button!!!
And about your pros and cons… are you talking about lunging or riding?? you need to be more precise… Also don’t forget. Its only a tool as part of a riding program… If a horse goes BTV it has nothing to do with a side rein but with the riding… Its an additional tool, not a program…
