Rein-back in Grand Prix

well of course everything is different when speed is added.

no. She does a nice reinback. Head position is fine i think.
We are working toward a trot to reinback. But still need a quick halt. She steps out of it into a good walk almost always.

how can you be sure of either? yes, we practice a lot. and yes it is the same movement. I do not do this alone, i have a coach.

1 Like

I can promise you that you are not doing a collected trot - halt - reinback - collected trot from the Grand Prix test. I don’t have to see it to know that’s the case.

Working trot - halt - go backwards is not a Grand Prix reinback.

19 Likes

This conversation has now become pretty amusing. A barely training level rider claiming that her reinback is the same movement as that of a GP horse.

Please, do go on.

18 Likes

In regard to the OP, I have never witnessed the RB movement covered in a clinic. Seems like that should be addressed. It’s worth 10 points, so not insignificant.

7 Likes

It’s a question of prioritization. 10 pts is 2% of the available score. The piaffe tour is worth 60 pts-- 12.5%. When I was showing GP, I had a pretty simple philosophy: if I’m spending clinic-money on a lesson, I’m focusing on the big-money movements.

That said, I’m now riding a QH who on his best day is a 6.5-7 mover. So nailing that reinback may be what keeps us in the running (although if you’ve followed our flying change travails you’ll know that we’re not at GP).

7 Likes

I have. That said, not all clinicians realize what a wonderful tool it is and how it needn’t be thrown away or glossed over. It can be a wonderful muscle building exercise. It can be a wonderful re-focusing tool for horses that are hot hot hot*. It can be used to balance hot horses before a series of transitions.

To me, it’s worth a LOT more than that measly 10 its capable of earning on a test sheet :slight_smile:

I remember reading (fairly recently? maybe within the last year? maybe it was about Suppenkasper??) a short article on the difficulties of really forward horses and piaffe work and how changing it up with loose rein walk or rein back immediately following isn’t normal, but can be very useful for keeping a hothead chilled out instead of even more amped up during training. As I read it, I was all, phew, maybe I’m not nuts for using RB to settle my nutjob down after piaffe.

4 Likes

exactly. well said.

1 Like

Exactly.

I didn’t think 2nd would be that difficult until I did it. I was really like Wow at 3rd, things happen fast!! Yikes! Holy cow this is hard. Like 90+% of those doing dressage, we realize anything beyond 2nd is really freaking hard and complex work that requires dedication and significant effort, so we top out there. We hit the ceiling and respect our limitations (time, money, commitment, horse, health, whatever they are) and absolutely respect the effort and skill it takes to go further.

It is so easy to sit in the audience at Carnegie Hall and think, pfft, how hard can it be?

16 Likes

That’s what makes dressage so frustrating. Every time you think you’ve getting better, the work gets harder and you suck all over again haha.

19 Likes

Getting my mare to ditch her scoot backward (which yes, she did use that as evasion once someone - not me - taught her how to “back” that way) for a decent 2nd level quality reinback was a surprising amount of work. Thought we were going to be fine because she’s never been one to turn into a llama for backing, but SURPRISE, that balance, collection, straightness, etc is a challenging combination.

That breath you need in the halt before the reinback reminds me of certain exercises in rally-obedience, you’re supposed to pause before moving on but because it seems like a break in momentum instead of bottling it, folks miss it (and miss out on points). I don’t envy the GP riders who need to contain that momentum in the middle of their test.

7 Likes

The old, old GP tests used to have a trot - rein back - walk - rein back movement; talk about difficult and testing the horse being off the forehand and in front of the leg. Most often when I school the rein back - trot movement the error I get is a canter instead of collected trot. I always had good scores on the rein back throughout all the levels but for some reason, moving off in the trot is really challenging.

As someone who has trained one horse from first backed to schooling all the GP…my opinion is the GP test is really all about transitions. Yes you need to be able to do the “tricks” of the tempis, pirouettes, and p/p but the thing that will absolutely kill your chances of making it through the whole test is not nailing the transitions. The hardest movement in the entire GP test is the canter to trot transition at C at the end of the test - we’d usually end up cantering smaller, smaller, smaller, and then walking instead of trotting.

13 Likes

This movement made a re-appearance in 4th Level Test 3 from 2015 to 2018. “Halt, rein back 4 steps, walk forward 4 steps, rein back 4 steps. Proceed collected trot.” And I agree, it was challenging to present well.

1 Like

OMG I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed this! My mom and I always talk about this! I can’t believe how many UL event horses can’t do even a half decent rein back. It makes me cringe every time! It tells me some riders don’t ride with a dressage trainer but an event trainer. No offence, but most legit dressage trainers will have you be doing a rein back even as a basic movement.

I was just practicing this in my lesson the other day on my dressage horse and after a great one I said, welp I guess I’m ready for Landrover Kentucky dressage now hahaha Such a silly way to throw away points.

4 Likes

I agree - but having had the opportunity to ride some of these creatures as an upper level pony clubber, I also have sympathy. At that level you need a horse with a fifth leg - a horse that can think independently and make decisions for the both of you to stay upright and on his feet when things get tricky. And that same creature needs to be tremendously fit to run XC the next day. Those things don’t usually add up to good scores on the precise training/submission movements - rein back, halt, walk pirouette.

17 Likes

I always was surprised by that too - especially before the scoring changes to dressage.

I watched Michel Jung come in and positively destroy the competition with incredible dressage scores time after time and the last two days, his only job was just to not make any egregious mistakes over XC/show jumping. He clearly dedicated a lot of time to finessing his dressage. It always seemed to me that the other riders should follow a similar strategy since, after dressage, you can always go down in the standings by your own merit, but the only way to move UP is if other people make mistakes.

7 Likes

Yes, but I got my piece of humble pie when I could not get a good RB either ‘riding’ that test. That test was really inspiring in that I watched it and said, ‘omg, I want to ride this at home!’. So I did - with some slight modifications respective to our level (1st level confirmed, schooling 2nd). That test is HARD and it is FAST. There is no let down.

I understand the whys of certain movements being ‘underutilized’ in favor of perfecting the movements with coefficients. On one of the event test[s] years ago, I can’t remember which one it was (maybe Training?) the free walk had an x2 coefficient. I spent so much time perfecting it, but our stretchy trot circle wasn’t great. Priorities!

1 Like

This is my life right now. Plus with the coach yelling “no, no, no, do not let him dwell! Where is your left leg?! From your seat, YOUR SEAT!!”

6 Likes

Respectfully disagree completely. I ride that exact type of horse in dressage and she has a wonderful rein back. Any of these movements are just expressions of the training. Ingrid and MJ can perform them, no reason others can’t also get good scores.

3 Likes

certainly makes sense to focus where there are more points, but in general the rein back is something that can be easily schooled every day or once a week and become quite good. I really feel riders just don’t understand or respect the movement enough to practice.

2 Likes

You aren’t seriously suggesting that everyone rides as well as these two, are you? “If they can do it, anyone can do it?” Not bloody likely.

7 Likes