Rein-back in Grand Prix

[Djones]

It’s Land Rover. If you are going to pick at others for calling it Rolex, for the love call it Land Rover

She reminds me - and others - of Amber. Honest question, were you around for Amber?

I know you and I bonk heads occasionally, yet I can say that I also appreciate your input and experience. It’s COTH, it’s never going to be a love fest all around. If 8pondfarm finds herself at the pointy end of a stick across many, many threads from a variety of posters… the common factor should be considered.

[SillyHorse]

@Jealoushe

@SillyHorse

Want to know about mine?

Sure…is it a competition now who has a better coach? Let’s hear about yours first.

Of course it’s not a competition, but if someone is getting questionable ideas in her head and keeps referring to her coach, I’m going to wonder what that coach’s credentials are. Anyone – even Nick Peronace – can hang out a trainer’s or coach’s shingle and do more harm than good to unsuspecting riders new to dressage. One way to assess a trainer’s or coach’s abilities is to look at his or her show record.

Since you’re “interested,” though, I have two main coaches. My regular coach has her gold medal and teaches all levels. One student in particular has gone from walk-trot intro to breaking the 70% mark at first level, within 1.5 years, on a non-WB.

My once-a-month coach is a Pan Am medalist. She also teaches all levels and her students all progress at a steady rate.

Frankly, I’m not particularly interested in your coach’s background or credentials. You don’t spout off like a know-nothing tyro.

[Heinz_57]

@Jealoushe

It is a fact, that the rein back is a neglected movement in UL dressage and UL eventing.

Maybe I should trot out the ol’ ‘eventers have 3 disciplines to practice so cut them some slack’ card really though, eventing dressage has made huge progress in the last decade or two, right down to the lowest levels. There was a time when you could win with a 40’s dressage score (<60%, for non-eventer folks). I’ve done it numerous times these days you’d be at the bottom of the pack, winners are getting scores in the low 20s and high teens. UL scores come down a bit from that.

I mean, sure… we could all stand to practice everything more, I feel like that’s a given.

[eightpondfarm]

@SillyHorse

You don’t spout off like a know-nothing tyro.

meaning me?
Really, discussions go so much better when people don’t go to the personal.

[SillyHorse]

@eightpondfarm

@SillyHorse

You don’t spout off like a know-nothing tyro.

meaning me?
Really, discussions go so much better when people don’t go to the personal.

Now why would you think that?

And that’s all you took away from my post? That’s awesome.

[SillyHorse]

@eightpondfarm

again, what you think about me is immaterial to anyone. Nobody cares.

@eightpondfarm

Really, discussions go so much better when people don’t go to the personal.

LOL

[Jealoushe]

I like to look at the students show records too. Thanks for sharing, it’s always interesting to learn these things about posters!

[blue_heron]

I don’t understand the personal back and forth here. Why does someone have to have shown the GP rein back to have thoughts on the rein back? If we all have to show GP before posting here, I think there’d be about three people left, and I wouldn’t be one of them. If a poster’s thoughts are misguided, it’s a learning experience. I usually find eightpond’s comments engaging and thoughtful. If you want to accuse people of unsolicited advice, there are other posters who are much greater offenders.

I agree with whoever said it’s about taking a breath. I haven’t shown this but practiced the sequence a few times. The breath helps. A little reminder to “stay up” in front with the snaffle and slide the lower leg back to engage both hind legs. I don’t mind if the poll comes up an inch. Then complete cue for the reinback. As soon as the four steps back are done, I immediately want the “squeeze toothpaste out of the tube” feeling whether walk or trot. My trainer teaches never to canter out of the halt or reinback.

In writing this all out I realize I have developed an aid to tell my horse we are transitioning into a collected movement before performing it. I think the rein back is one of the only times I consciously use it, though.

[Djones]

I love this rider’s test, I grabbed the video to start at the beginning of their ride, including their ring familiarization before the ride since they can’t ride around it.

RE-LIVE |&nbsp;Salzburg (AUT) | FEI Dressage World Cup™ 2021 | Grand Prix

It’s fun to look at one test in its entirety and appreciate how quickly one has to tick things off. I just love this horse, I don’t even know who it is (A. Ramel, yes, but I’m not fan girling is what I mean) but skipping around in the video the pair caught my eye. The halt is lovely at C, what do you all see in the reinback you like, and what could be improved?

[lazaret]

@blue_heron

I don’t understand the personal back and forth here. Why does someone have to have shown the GP rein back to have thoughts on the rein back?

They don’t. But to say that they know exactly how the reinback should be done and people just don’t practice enough when they’re currently learning to halt from a walk is really kind of an exceptional leap to take.

If it were that easy, everyone would do it. It’s clearly not. And it seems like it should be easy but the reason it’s in the Grand Prix test is because it’s not.

So to have someone just pop in and say they watch it on tv and it doesn’t look that hard so everyone should just practice it from day 1 is just from left field. There’s many ways to train through the upper levels but if you haven’t even attempted it, it seems hard to say definitively that you know how it must be done.

[blue_heron]

Yeah, and note you only included the first two sentences of my post.

Everyone should be practicing rein back. At whatever stage of training you’re at. The general rules of rein back still apply.

[eightpondfarm]

@lazaret

So to have someone just pop in and say they watch it on tv and it doesn’t look that hard so everyone should just practice it from day 1 is just from left field.

Is it paranoia to think you’re reference is to me? If so, I’ve not seen it on tv. Nor have i said everyone should practice it from day one. What i have said is that * i * practice it now throughout every lesson. (not from day one, i’ve been training with this particular mare for a year now) It’s part of my program, with this horse and with this coach.

[lazaret]

Are you willing to accept that what you’re practicing is at best the preschool version of what is being shown at the Grand Prix?

[joiedevie99]

@Djones

The halt is lovely at C, what do you all see in the reinback you like, and what could be improved?

Amateur opinion, but I’ll try.

Like: The horse stays to the contact well, the rein-back steps are diagonal and active. The horse does the correct number of steps. The departure in trot is prompt. The trot in and out is active and uphill.

Dislike: The whole movement is a bit rushed. The horse loses balance on the entry, takes too many walk steps into the halt, and momentarily loses the uphill tendency. The transition out is a bit abrupt and lacking self-carriage.

[lorilu]

@eightpondfarm

Practice makes perfect. If a reinback is a known deficient movement, than doesn’t it stand to reason that practice would make it better? And doesn’t it stand to reason that most people (of any stratosphere) could understand this simple concept?

One problem here is that over-practicing any movement with a GP horse (or one truly bound in that direction, not just learning the tricks) results in him learning where and when you are going to ask - anticipation. And that leads to rushing. So, you practice the set up - a good forward halt, for example, and a good trot off. Maybe practice the actual steps back once in a while - maybe one or two, maybe more than is asked for in the test, maybe in a different place, maybe with a walk in and out. Like ALL movements, the reinback has a purpose in training, and exposes any weaknesses in training.
And while I am not at GP yet, I am showing PSG, training the I1-A-B-2, and I am on my way with a gold medal trainer (as well as all the freestyle medals too, one of fewer than 10 in the US with that IIRC).

[sparkygrace]

@eightpondfarm

And a reinback is a foundational movement in my lessons. A cornerstone as-it-were.

Not criticizing. Can you explain this? Is rein back helping your horse carry more weight behind and lighten the forehand? You are probably getting pushback because traditional dressage training emphasizes forward and doing too much rein back early on may inhibit forward thinking in some horses, who can use it as an evasion to not go forward.

I know I had to be careful with one dressage horse who was the most “backward thinking” horse I’ve owned. Sucking back and spooking was his thing. He was very hard to get super-forward and through.

[lorilu]

COuld someone give me a time stamp for the test we should watch for this commentary on the RB? I’d live to test my eye but not sure which you are discussing, and not going to slog thru it all looking for the moment one riders name is posted… TIA

[joiedevie99]

@lorilu

COuld someone give me a time stamp for the test we should watch for this commentary on the RB?

1:47:06

[dotneko]

Lovely, soft halt. RB diagonal, but right side slightly shorter than left. Step off into trot not quite fluid.
I loved training the old schaukel. It really emphasized knowing which diagonal pair was leaving the ground. Then stepping off into either canter or passage - what a powerful feeling!

[Nous]

@dotneko

I loved training the old shaukel.

Thanks, I was trying to remember what the movement was called!