Does it seem that there is a huge gap, between the requirements for BN, when compared to the requirements for Novice?
More than ever, I believe that I will stay at BN.
What the fruitbat are they doing to Novice? Getting extremely combination happy here over small fences that do not encourage good jumping is asking for trouble & not the point of flipping Novice! A bank up two strides to a trakhener is exactly how to encourage forward riding. BS. Two two-strides in SJ? Who proposed this? Rediculous as these rules will be seen as suggestions and popping up all over the place & I can assure you if I wanted that many combinations in my life I’d do the jumpers.
- NOVICE: The Novice Level is a continuing introduction to Horse Trials. It is designed for competitors and horses with some experience at lower levels or for experienced riders and horses new to the sport. The dressage will not differ greatly from Beginner Novice. The cross-country will should invite bold, forward movement involving galloping in balance and jumping out of stride. Combinations may include: obstacles on a two stride line, and an obstacle after a ditch at no less than two strides. Steps in combination may include: a step up followed by a step down at two strides, two steps up at two strides, or an obstacle after a step up at two strides. Waters may incorporate a simple jump out of water.
The obstacles will be more substantial and may include a drop, a double, and a simple obstacle out of water. At such water obstacles, the exit shall not be revetted. Individual obstacles may include: a simple log trakehner, a step down or a double brush. The jumping course should be inviting and straightforward, preferably with lines of six strides or more and shall include only one or two doubles a double of two strides, which may include only one oxer. Each combination may include only one oxer.
I don’t know, I sort of think steps do encourage forward riding…my horses seem to always jump well after them. as long as I sit in the middle, keep my leg there and steer, the obstacle always seems to work out well. It is a good reminder not to get in the horse’s way…
I don’t see any issue with two doubles at Novice, or a triple for that matter so I think the rules are too easy in SJ! Combinations and related distances are basically “free jumps” from my perspective because once you jump in if you know your horse’s stride well you pretty much know what to do to get the second one based on whether the first was quiet or forward, from the base or long. I have a much harder time getting a really nice distance to all the first jumps in the lines!
Did anyone notice the huge difference between the “jump with no height” distances, between BN and Novice? There is almost a 3’ difference!! :eek:
Having a half coffin and a jump out of the water are absurd, too. Novice should be a continuation of what the horse has learned at BN. There is no continuation to be found. It is a huge leap. :o
I feel like having 3’7" max height for brush jumps on a Novice course is ridiculous. I feel like a few combinations, slightly higher fences, etc. are appropriate for the level. The whole point is to build confidence when moving up, not scare the living poop out of the riders (aka me.) I was planning on moving up to Novice next fall.
Of course the last event I did, they had a jump, 2-3 canter strides into water, then two canter strides to a big coup going up a hill…at BN…which is technically against these rules…so if I did that I’ll probably be fine.
But still.
Appendix 1 and 2 changes
First off: have any of you read the current rules? The specifications for brush, obstacles without height, etc. are unchanged. In fact those specs have not changed in the past fifteen years. So compare the wording of the proposal with what is currently the standard before you get too excited.
Second: this is not the version that the Membership Committee sent to the Board of Governors. The Board sent that proposal to the Course Design Committee for revision and submitted their proposal. Remember the CD Committee? They are the ones who gave us that proposal last year that drew so much negative comment.
I would be happy to provide the original wording for you, if I can figure out how to get it all into a post here. Janet, some help there? The Membership Committee produced this because of the mess last year, and because they continue to be concerned about the issue of “bracket creep”. Prior to 2000, there were strict limitations in Appendix 1 and 2 regarding what sort of obstacles were appropriate at the various levels. Those were removed in 2000 because it was believed that the Course Design Guidelines were a better way to manage things. Of course what happened is that Course Designers treated them as "Guidelines " and built what they wanted. We got a lot of lower level courses with inappropriate questions.
So, the attempt was made to restrict what CDs could do at the lower levels. The original wording was lifted almost verbatim from the 1999 rule book, and was therefore a step back to a period when riders could have some certainty about what they would face when they got to cross-country. I am sure that the Membership Committee would appreciate your support in getting some definable and enforceable limits on what lower level competitors can expect. You can send comments to them via the USEA.
Malcolm
Before any knickers get in a big twist please visit the current rule book.
http://useventing.com/sites/default/files/rulebook.pdf
Page 78 has the table of sizes–most of these things have been the same size pretty much forever.
LAZ - I could be missing things but have combinations been in the rule book? As Malcom points out these prevent creep rules unfortunately become guidelines & I cannot get on board with all these combinations at the lower levels. They do not encourage forward thinking riding or careful jumping by the horses. So not good for the adult ammy nor are they good for the developing young horse. I’ve worked with great jumper trainers & when we start bounces & one-strides for jumping it’s always quickly to +3’-3’6 for the out for the youngest of horses (cavaletti exercises excluded) so they aren’t sloppy with their forearm, learn to rock back & get the forearm up. Combinations at low heights do exactly the opposite. And then the young riders on ponies or those on off-breeds who don’t have a regular horse step? Unforgiving. I’ve sent something to USEA with my thoughts. Sent after listening to Andrew Nicolsons interview. Do not have course trickery creep. It’s just too dangerous. Unforgiving & Novice do not belong together.
Recently had a jump into water that was a hanging log with part of the water underneath it. I was not too happy to see that at Novice, couldn’t find anything prohibiting it & I have a fantastic young horse but it was a scary jump with lots of unhappy Novice riders.
[QUOTE=skipollo;8373768]
I feel like having 3’7" max height for brush jumps on a Novice course is ridiculous.[/QUOTE] This is NOT a rule change. 3’7" has been the height for Novice brush since at least 2007 (the earliest rule book I have on my computer)
[QUOTE=Auburn;8373758]
Did anyone notice the huge difference between the “jump with no height” distances, between BN and Novice? There is almost a 3’ difference!! :eek:[/QUOTE]
That is also unchanged since at least 2007.
[QUOTE=msghook;8373887]
Second: this is not the version that the Membership Committee sent to the Board of Governors. The Board sent that proposal to the Course Design Committee for revision and submitted their proposal. Remember the CD Committee? They are the ones who gave us that proposal last year that drew so much negative comment.
I would be happy to provide the original wording for you, if I can figure out how to get it all into a post here. Janet, some help there? The Membership Committee produced this because of the mess last year, and because they continue to be concerned about the issue of “bracket creep”.
…
I am sure that the Membership Committee would appreciate your support in getting some definable and enforceable limits on what lower level competitors can expect. You can send comments to them via the USEA.
Malcolm[/QUOTE]
Here, at Malcolm’s request, is the version that the Membership Committee submitted to the USEA BOG.
You can find the contact information for the Membership Committee here
http://useventing.com/sites/default/files/Committees.pdf
App1 Re.doc (26.5 KB)
[QUOTE=Janet;8373966]
This is NOT a rule change. 3’7" has been the height for Novice brush since at least 2007 (the earliest rule book I have on my computer)[/QUOTE]
Snark unnecessary, I’ve only been eventing for two years.
But I’m super relieved that it’s not a new rule–I’ve never seen an XC jump that big on an unrecognized Novice course before so I doubt I’ll ever actually see one. Thanks for the info!
LOL… If you think that was snark, you need to read more COTH threads!
[QUOTE=skipollo;8374004]
Snark unnecessary, I’ve only been eventing for two years.[/QUOTE]
No snark intended.
Just trying to keep the discussion focused on the actual proposed changes.
[QUOTE=chism;8374042]
LOL… If you think that was snark, you need to read more COTH threads![/QUOTE]
I was just thinking that! :lol:
I think the technical aspects at novice look like fun. We have schooled most of these (we are competing at BN). Now the 3’7" brush on the other hand…How many horses actually know to jump through the brush? My guy doesn’t. If you have fenced judged a brush jump at N/T I would be curious as to percentages.
I have seen all of those things at novice in my area the last few years. I thought eventing was said to be way easier in the Midwest…
Janet and Mr. Hook, I stand corrected. :winkgrin:
This is a novice brush fence that we had at our last event. It was in a combo - a ditch, bending line to this. Friend that I used for size reference is 5’5".
Horse did brush it, at least with the front end, which I was shocked by because he’s never actually brushed a brush fence before (this is his first year eventing so he’s stll pretty green). I was peeing myself about that combo a little bit but I don’t think anyone had a problem there, it rode pretty well.
