That is the way I read it as well, Tackpud.
[QUOTE=Rel6;8268723]
She acted as Tori’s trainer at Lake Placid last year when Tori brought horses without Scott Stewart (before she moved to Heritage.) She is a junior who can’t sign her own entries, her mom sets her fences, helps her at the ring, and warms her up, so why is it so far-fetched? I believe either Betsee Parker or Scott have even said in interviews that Mrs. Colvin is integral to managing the horses. Tori basically trains herself at shows when Scott isn’t there (again, before she switched) but she still needs someone over 18 to sign as trainer.[/QUOTE]
I had no idea that Tori and her mom were away from SS et. al. when the urine was tested positive. Sorry.
[QUOTE=caballogurl;8269800]
Are their no penalties for Tori even though she was riding the horse?[/QUOTE]
No. She was only listed as the rider and the rules in place at that time only punish the trainer. Tori is fine to continue to ride and show.
[QUOTE=caballogurl;8269856]
Now Tori is clearly an exceptionally talented rider and I could only wish to be 1/100th of the rider she is. But again the culture of drugging is so deeply embedded in our sport especially in the hunter and equitation divisions that trainers have the “everybody does it” mentality. All the trainers focus on is using the medications that they can’t “yet” test for. For years Carolina Gold, GABA ect were un-testable. Look at how many used syringes are left in the barn aisle at the end of the show? Honestly it is frightening…[/QUOTE]
While I agree that Tori is a lovely rider, and seems to be a very nice young lady, I also wonder how much of her “ability” are the horses she rides? I’ve seen horses that could go in and do an entire course with a monkey (if they could just remember the course)!! The other thing I find troubling is that she is idolized by many young riders that may now look at her as though drugging is acceptable. Whether she actively took part or not, I do believe she had knowledge. Based on other comments on this thread, as well as others I have read, she has always maintained a complete “hands on” approach to her rides. So what message is she sending down? That winning, by all costs, is all that matters? I sure hope not…
Tori has ridden plenty of mediocre horses over the years from the time she was about 8 years old. In fact she rode a pretty average one for me and made it look much better tan it actually was awhile back 
So no need to be concerned that she can only win on a famous one LOL
[QUOTE=caballogurl;8269856]
In theory, I would love to watch a true “hunter” division with tons of natural obstacles and challenging non-related distances. Unfortunately, the divisions have become so watered down it is like watching paint dry. Even the hunter “derbies” are not true derbies. I watched the $25k hunter class at the Oaks and not one horse landed on the proper lead after fence 3.
The problem is to properly train a horse it takes copious amounts of time. My young horses at three spend three months learning just ground work with a cowboy. No barn actively competing on the circuit has the time time to properly train a horse from a young age and in Europe they don’t either. Horses are rushed through training to get ready for sale and exported to the US. I only import unbroke 3 or 4 year olds so I can properly start them according to my program. My horses don’t go to an “A” circuit barn until they are five or six and ready for the young horse championships because I know they don’t have enough time to spend on the basics. I have a four year old that just got back from my cowboy that you could put a toddler on and go out for a trail ride. And it not her breeding because she is bred extremely hot…Clarimo and almost 60% blood with two sisters that did the 1.6m and her brother went to Olympics for eventing. So this mare wasn’t bred to be a kids horse. She can go around on a long rein with cows and flapping banners and she could care less. She has jumped over trash cans, a baby play pool, swims through a creek and all without batting an eyelash. Granted she has a good temperament, but mostly it is extensive training. I recently took her to a clinic during thunder and lightening and she unloaded into the trailer and went straight into the ring an hour later. It is all the extensive ground work and exposure that gives her a confident, calm, and collected approach to new situations.
Why you see so much drugging on the circuit is it a quick fix and people don’t want to get hurt. But the problem is most of the horses even competing at the upper levels have holes in their foundation and eventually it causes issues. This is not unique to the hunter ring it also happens in the jumpers. I have a friend who purchased a proven 1.6m horse in Europe that had been competing on the Global Champions Tour but he had been tossed around through many hands and was never properly “broke.” After they had him about a year he started stopping badly…like even at 1m fences. See for the horses whole career trainer’s had used quick fix solutions and medications, instead of addressing the root issues the horse had. The horse had to go spend a year with a cowboy and be horse, and now he is starting to show again albeit not 1.6m anymore.
Now Tori is clearly an exceptionally talented rider and I could only wish to be 1/100th of the rider she is. But again the culture of drugging is so deeply embedded in our sport especially in the hunter and equitation divisions that trainers have the “everybody does it” mentality. All the trainers focus on is using the medications that they can’t “yet” test for. For years Carolina Gold, GABA ect were un-testable. Look at how many used syringes are left in the barn aisle at the end of the show? Honestly it is frightening…
One thing I have never understood, is why can’t a judge or a steward ask for a horse to be tested if they are suspicious that it has been drugged. From speaking with an top “R” rated hunter judge recently, she said that she frequently pins in top placing horses that she suspects are drugged, but that her role is to judge the round. It is up to USEF designated testers to randomly select horses to be tested. Why can’t a judge or a steward ask for a horse to be tested? If I see a driver driving extremely erratically and I call the police, they have probable cause to give the driver a sobriety test. I understand people are afraid certain individuals would be targeted but who cares if your horse gets tested if you aren’t drugging.[/QUOTE]
Not to hijack the thread, but speaking about a lack of training in the hunters, did anyone notice yesterday the BNT female trainer from California who practically separated from her horse trying to get a change of lead down the last line? Not only is asking for a change like that ugly, it shows that the horse isn’t trained well enough to be there. Some lead change training with a reining trainer might be in order for some of these pros and their mounts!
[QUOTE=marginall;8269744]
This is hilarious:
ALEXANDRIA DESIDERIO of Chester, NJ, [Tranquility Farms] violated Chapter 7, GR702.1d and GR702.1e of this Federation, in connection with the
Arabian and Half Arabian Youth National Championship Horse Show held on July 19 – 26, 2014, in that she was heard using
inappropriate language during a ribbon presentation; glared at the panel of judges; approached judges without obtaining permission
from the Steward; and verbally abused a fellow exhibitor and the exhibitor’s father. [/QUOTE]
If I were her, I would cry “dirty pool” (probably in more colorful language). Arabian people get suspended/fined while dressage people only get Yellow Cards.
Tina Konyot meet Alerandria Desiderio
[QUOTE=chunky munky;8269882]
Tori has ridden plenty of mediocre horses over the years from the time she was about 8 years old. In fact she rode a pretty average one for me and made it look much better tan it actually was awhile back So no need to be concerned that she can only win on a famous one LOL[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I didn’t say that right, and I did read that she is incredibly hard working and rides anything she can. I just wonder if the kids that adore her realize this or will they only see the “crap that floats to the surface”?
[QUOTE=Tackpud;8269869]
Nothing happens to Inclusive. His owner was not suspended or fined with the exception of having to pay fees to the show and return prizes. He, and all her other horses and ponies, are fine to continue to show. Tori can continue to show him because neither she nor her mother own him, nor is she showing him for her mother’s benefit. Only horses that are owned by the suspended persons are not allowed to compete during the suspension.[/QUOTE]
OK,
Thanks for the clarification.
That isn’t how I read it but it is, as usual, not 100% clear and I am sure you are right.
The part that still gets me is that I cannot imagine why any trainer (especially a BNT who bills clients for everything to do with their horses) would use a dusty 3 year old container of an ulcer med. that they knew nothing about.
How many times a week does someone from a BNT barn go to the feed store, tack store, call the vet, contact SmartPak?
Hell I am a LNAmmie and I scrupiously throw away all meds/drugs within 2 years after their expiration date. 
And I sure as hell would use Gastroguard, Neighlox or one of Smart Paks ulcer treatments before opening up an ancient can of a product I knew nothing about and using it for 3+ months
[QUOTE=JustJump;8269679]
Lynn Jayne is not USHJA President. (Billy Moroney is USHJA President for Life, last I heard).[/QUOTE]
Uhhhh, just going to point this out again, since it seems to have been run right over in the hand-wringing. Lynne is one of 16 USHJA Directors, not President of our national governing body. If ya’ll want these threads to both productive and taken seriously, we really need to get that kind of stuff right.
And also… whenever there’s an attitude thread on COTH the favorite answer is ulcers. So, while I totally agree the name Tranquility is stupid hard to swallow in this argument, it is not that far of a jump from calm gut to calm horse. We do it daily 'round here.
(Disclaimer: Not saying the use was right or wrong, it is hard to ascertain today how that substance was marketed several years ago. I’m frankly more shocked it was fed after sitting in a trailer for a lengthy time.)
But ultimately, I can’t imagine the Serios get a whole out of sticking their neck out here. The fine is manageable (close to what they were going to pay for the study) and I believe their business could survive the vacation. What I do see between the admittedly emotional lines of that note is a team that is gobsmacked. Shocked that out of all the truly dirty players they were the ones put in front of the firing squad. A lot of us had in mind names that might wash out in this USEF action, hoped would wash out in this action, and I gotta say, they weren’t one of them.
I am not saying they are guilt free in this particular situation, and I’m very curious to see if any other names come out in the GABA hunt because if not we are clearly testing for the wrong substance (if you want to really clean up the users in this sport, that is).
But one things for sure, if what they say is true about the production of that GABA test then USEF is in for a world of legal trouble. They put Tommy up there, and he opened the door for anyone that’s been sat down for it to legitimately lay suit. How’s that for your membership dollars at work?
[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8269749]
why is this “hilarious”? Not funny at all…[/QUOTE]
The juxtaposition of her behavior with the name of her farm is a tad ironic…
What in the world does landing on the proper lead have to do with anything? Are you of the mistaken idea that landing a lead is better than a clean lead change?
[QUOTE=dags;8269916]
Uhhhh, just going to point this out again, since it seems to have been run right over in the hand-wringing. Lynne is one of 16 USHJA Directors, not President of our national governing body. If ya’ll want these threads to both productive and taken seriously, we really need to get that kind of stuff right.
And also… whenever there’s an attitude thread on COTH the favorite answer is ulcers. So, while I totally agree the name Tranquility is stupid hard to swallow in this argument, it is not that far of a jump from calm gut to calm horse. We do it daily 'round here.
(Disclaimer: Not saying the use was right or wrong, it is hard to ascertain today how that substance was marketed several years ago. I’m frankly more shocked it was fed after sitting in a trailer for a lengthy time.)
But ultimately, I can’t imagine the Serios get a whole out of sticking their neck out here. The fine is manageable (close to what they were going to pay for the study) and I believe their business could survive the vacation. What I do see between the admittedly emotional lines of that note is a team that is gobsmacked. Shocked that out of all the truly dirty players they were the ones put in front of the firing squad. A lot of us had in mind names that might wash out in this USEF action, hoped would wash out in this action, and I gotta say, they weren’t one of them.
I am not saying they are guilt free in this particular situation, and I’m very curious to see if any other names come out in the GABA hunt because if not we are clearly testing for the wrong substance (if you want to really clean up the users in this sport, that is).
But one things for sure, if what they say is true about the production of that GABA test then USEF is in for a world of legal trouble. They put Tommy up there, and he opened the door for anyone that’s been sat down for it to legitimately lay suit. How’s that for your membership dollars at work?[/QUOTE]
I posted a few pages back the marketing for the product back in 2012. The vet that makes it put out a notice that it was not legal to use at USEF events. Couldn’t be more clear than that. The website still says it has gaba in it so not sure what the statement about it being manufactured before 2013 has anything to do with anything. If I were in their shoes, I would stop sticking my neck out and take a vacation because it is awfully hard to challenge a test when you admitted that used a supplement with a banned substance. I think most people have been getting away with their preferred form of GABA for a long time and just assume they will never get caught because they have tested clean so far. But just because a test isn’t catching everyone doesn’t mean it is generating false positives. That is like a kid that got caught cheating on a test and defends himself by saying that everyone else is cheating and it isn’t fair that he is the only one that the teacher caught. Not a winning argument. Just my two cents.
[QUOTE=JustJump;8269679]
Lynn Jayne is not USHJA President. (Billy Moroney is USHJA President for Life, last I heard).[/QUOTE]
You are right- she is President of USHJA Foundation Board of Directors
But one things for sure, if what they say is true about the production of that GABA test then USEF is in for a world of legal trouble. They put Tommy up there, and he opened the door for anyone that’s been sat down for it to legitimately lay suit.
Oh, I wouldn’t be very worried about the Serios, in the big scope of things. There’s another name in this mix with far deeper pockets. Now again, if I assume people (or associations) are SMRT, I would like to assume that they had their testing/legal ducks in a row before they took on a super deep pocket that was attached to a ton of ego whose life appears to be very wrapped up in this sport. But you never know. People (or associations) have been proven to not be SMRT time and time again.
Lord Helpus, I thought the same thing when I read about the cussing dustup. The difference between the two is that NAYJRC was run under FEI rules and the Arab show is under the USEF rules. A Yellow Card is nothing to sneeze at- get a second one in a one year period, there an automatic 2 month suspension.
http://www.fei.org/system/files/FEI_Warning_card_2015.pdf
[QUOTE=DMK;8269970]
Oh, I wouldn’t be very worried about the Serios, in the big scope of things. There’s another name in this mix with far deeper pockets. Now again, if I assume people (or associations) are SMRT, I would like to assume that they had their testing/legal ducks in a row before they took on a super deep pocket that was attached to a ton of ego whose life appears to be very wrapped up in this sport. But you never know. People (or associations) have been proven to not be SMRT time and time again.[/QUOTE]
In the article the Chronicle just released, Brigid said she was appealing since she had nothing to do with it…
“I had nothing to do with it, so I am appealing,” Brigid said. “I am in the process of going through the real courts to appeal because I’m very upset about this.”
Shouldn’t you know what’s going on if you sign the entry blank? Find that hard to believe.
[QUOTE=bjd2013;8269992]
In the article the Chronicle just released, Brigid said she was appealing since she had nothing to do with it…
“I had nothing to do with it, so I am appealing,” Brigid said. “I am in the process of going through the real courts to appeal because I’m very upset about this.”
Shouldn’t you know what’s going on if you sign the entry blank? Find that hard to believe.[/QUOTE]
If the horse truly wasn’t getting the “supplement” at shows, and Brigid was only the trainer at shows, she may not have known what the horse was getting.
(I am wondering how big this free tub was if it lasted 2-3 horses for 2+ months.)
[QUOTE=CHT;8269999]
If the horse truly wasn’t getting the “supplement” at shows, and Brigid was only the trainer at shows, she may not have known what the horse was getting.
(I am wondering how big this free tub was if it lasted 2-3 horses for 2+ months.)[/QUOTE]
The “tub” and Inclusive are two entirely different cases.
