Saying NO nicely

[FjordBCRF]

@OverandOnward

@Bluey

Practically everyone is over their heads with those types of master manipulators.

Truest truth ever spoken.

This discussion also brings me back to the singer in my ex husbands band. They were signed to a label in LA; the whole bit. I won’t speculate a diagnosis but the singer fell into the master manipulator category as well. It was both fascinating and horrifying to see what he could pull off with industry professionals and the advantage he took with things. 100% self serving and zero empathy for who they trample in the process. He burned many a bridge.

People like this give me huge pause once I recognize the pattern. Hearing your story so far OP, would keep me firmly is the very clear and documented communication of no, and just keep the relationship professional.

[Zu_Zu]

OP - please do not do “this” to yourself - no one needs a boarder who one has already evicted once. Just say “We are not taking any new boarders.” You do not have to qualify your answer. It’s your life - your barn - please don’t upset your barn’s ambience ~

Adding please get this taken care of asap and rejoin your life ~ nothing to gain in this boarder’s RE-entry and so very much to lose • IMHO

Jingles & AO ~ this chore is completed today ~

[NancyM]

Some advice from my father, that stays with me long after he is gone… “Stay away from crazy people”. And I know that we are all a bit “crazy” sometimes, about certain things… but that’s not real true blue “crazy”, which it sounds like this one IS. And you know she is. I’d close the door to this one. You don’t need this in your life. Good luck!

[fivestrideline]

A simple text - “Hey Lesson Student! I just wanted to let you know I will not be able to take you on as a boarder if you do decide to purchase something. I am happy to continue your lessons on my horse, though! You’ve been doing so well lately with xyz. See you next week!”.

And tbh, I’d save/screenshot, just to CYA and also to help you stand firm by recalling EXACTLY what you have said. Then continue teaching her, if that’s what you desire.

[tabula_rashah]

I don’t think there is a need to make up un-true excuses or to extrapolate on your real reasons. No, at this time I am unable to offer you boarding. Period. Done. End of sentence. If questioned, repeat as needed

[firecracker]

I unfortunately experienced a situation with a BPD person that literally wrecked my life. They are master manipulators. In my case, it was like a slow motion train wreck, but I was blind to the first half of the train wreck. By the time things unraveled to a point where I registered that there was a train wreck happening, it was too late.

Be clear, set your boundaries, just say no. You seem like a kind person that wants to give this person a fair shot, but when it comes to BPD… just say no.

[ShenanAnna]

Oh, but you’re giving them an opening with “at this time.” If it’s true or reasonable to assume what the other posters are saying, then give them no openings. What this wording is saying is that tomorrow you’ll be open to her boarding, and that the only reason you’re saying “not now” isn’t that you don’t want to, but that something very temporary is making you “unable” to “offer.” What if she just takes it?

I know this is standard business language, but it’s so wishy-washy and full of holes on a swiss cheese level, and gives so, so many opportunities for abuse, misinterpretation, and manipulation. Just say No. Period no.

[tabula_rashah]

I think it depends entirely on how you say it. I use this quite often in my job and it works well

[ShenanAnna]

Perhaps it depends on who you say it to, also. People doing business with someone will likely understand that this is standard language for “no,” but will a “master manipulator” take it in the spirit it was intended? OP might not want to take the chance of finding out.

[OverandOnward]

@FjordBCRF

From my experience, you won’t realize you’ve been manipulated by someone who is very good at it until well after the fact.

Oh this is so true. And, we never know the whole story with them at any given moment. What else is going on in their lives, what is else is broken, what else they are in the process of breaking. It’s never just one thing.

Even if at the time you know they are up to things. It’s only in hindsight, especially after a lot of unknonw facts are brought to light, that a new light goes on, and I think “OH ! That’s what that was about.”.

A. Renter happily, with confidence proclaims: “Yes no problem I can have the 3 months of back rent fully caught up by the end of next week so we can stay.”

B. Next week get call from an authority: “Is Renter still in residence? Can you hold off telling him to move out so we can arrest him there? He just swindled an elderly couple out of $5,000.”

[FjordBCRF]

@fivestrideline

A simple text - “Hey Lesson Student! I just wanted to let you know I will not be able to take you on as a boarder if you do decide to purchase something. I am happy to continue your lessons on my horse, though! You’ve been doing so well lately with xyz. See you next week!”.

And tbh, I’d save/screenshot, just to CYA and also to help you stand firm by recalling EXACTLY what you have said. Then continue teaching her, if that’s what you desire.

I think all this is perfect, including it being via text and saving a screenshot.

[ShenanAnna]

It is pretty good, except for the “will not be able to” part, which means that there is an obstacle that can be removed. It’s dishonest and leaves a lot of room for negotiation/manipulation.

[fivestrideline]

I realize I wrote it, but I disagree. How else do you say it? Genuinely curious how it’s dishonest - OP will not be able to take Lesson Girl on as a boarder. “I am not able to take you”?

I don’t know how else to say it besides “I don’t want you as a boarder” which is rude and no more clear IMO. Though if it doesn’t translate well, I’m genuinely open to you clarifying how it can be misinterpreted - I wrote it so I know what I meant, but not necessarily how it may come across.

[Lusoluv]

How to say NO nicely: “NO” and

[OverandOnward]

“not able” is a phrase that some people could interpret as a temporary condition – especially people trying to push their way in. And possibly “not able” could be understood in different ways depending on the language customs of the region. There may be areas where the implication “not ever” is clear, but not everywhere.

People really don’t have to give a reason for saying no. The reason is an attempt to soften the message – to say it “nicely”, but the thread title.

The problem is that reasons are what get us in trouble later, because the reasons could be understood as not permanent.

But we tried to think of a ‘reason’ to soften the message, no matter how bogus, because we are worried about burning a bridge with that person. Sometimes we need to stop and think if that person already burned the bridge with us. And that’s why the uncomfortable situation in the first place.

I think some excellent responses have been given above that are definitive, no wiggle room.

[ShenanAnna]

The OP said nothing about not being able to take Lesson Girl as a boarder, presumably she’s perfectly capable of doing it. OP just said she does not want to.

What to say? Bluntly – “I will not take you as a boarder.” More fully, giving the reason – “because I evicted you as a boarder before, I will not take you again.” Adding “it’s my policy” might help, because it’s a rule and, therefore, harder to counter, or hurt, if word gets out that it’s your “rule” and loses you business from someone you’d like back or looks like a personal insult to Lesson Girl because you took someone else back. “No softeners” can be dangerous things.

I don’t like “no” either, it sounds way too harsh, so I add more words, but try hard to be honest and not add reasons/excuses that can come back and bite me in the butt.

My personal policy, developed after wayyyyyyy too many instances of people interpreting my nice no’s as “maybe,” or “you can if you want,” or countering my reasons/ excuses. No more. I’m too old and tired for that.

[fivestrideline]

Fair enough. I still interpret it the same, however, I can see if someone is intentionally trying to be an a**hole to get their way, they may try to weasel in. In which case, “I will not take you as a boarder” would be better. I wouldn’t give any reason (including policy/previous experience/etc), because to me that invites discussion. Just your chosen No, wash rinse repeat.

On a side note, it is amazing how much communication and social interaction is based on unspoken rules, expectations, and “manners”. For neurodivergent people, these can be particularly hard to navigate for a variety of reasons, depending on how their brain works. I know nothing about BPD - including a suspicion it isn’t called that anymore and/or that acronym works for several disorders - but I can tell you that it is great practice to say what you mean, as clearly and concisely as possible. This includes softening the blow to someone who needs that protection, without lying to them. It also includes being particularly blunt to those who cannot have any wiggle room for misinterpretation.

And I’ll be the first to admit that it is HARD, especially for those of us raised to be overly kind, accommodating, and self-sacrificing.

Edited cause I can’t spell

[Spudsmyguy]

@fivestrideline

I don’t know how else to say it besides “I don’t want you as a boarder” which is rude and no more clear IMO.

How about “I cannot take you on as a boarder.” ? Leaves out he unable part which I also thought was a bit ambiguous and left it open to interpretation of at some point will be able.

[OnAMission]

“I want you to be fully aware and understand that you can’t board here.” If you’d like, add in fuzz like “I wish you well and look forward to seeing you for … whatever… and hearing about your progress etc” but lead with line 1 and screen shot it. For me, there is a subtle shift from “I can’t board your horse here” to “you can’t board here” that might hit more squarely. I could be wrong but this is how I’d roll it.

[OverandOnward]

@OnAMission

“I want you to be fully aware and understand that you can’t board here.” If you’d like, add in fuzz like “I wish you well and look forward to seeing you for … whatever… and hearing about your progress etc” but lead with line 1 and screen shot it. For me, there is a subtle shift from “I can’t board your horse here” to “you can’t board here” that might hit more squarely. I could be wrong but this is how I’d roll it.

I love this. It’s absolutely clear. And there is some extra wordage as a softener that can be expressed politely and even with a smile.

Adding something that you can do – such as “I wish you well” and maybe “look forward to hearing about your progress”, if the last one is true – is a great softener. It doesn’t leave the interaction hanging on a negative note.