Personally, I think this arguement has gone far beyond “a horse died when it was impaled by a metal pole that it shouldn’t have been jumping in the first place.” It’s become the George Morris arguement, and the truth is that there are so many conflicting opinions on him, that it will fill up a zillion pages of “he’s a god” or “he’s horrible.”
Either or, this has gone beyond the poor horse.
So, who was this “trainer”, and I say that with breathe held, that deemed it necessary to jump a metal pole?
I have a hard time beleieving that most horse show people don’t know what goes on in the backgroung, or at night, or any other time others arn’t around. I have seen “promonent” trainers do bad things for years. This is nothing new!! Maybe this will be a wake up call. These guys have been doing illegal stuff for ever! I have been RETIRED from the show ring for the past 20 years because of these reasons. I still have some very beautiful and sought after horses, but I don’t let them go until they are absoutely trained. Therefore they dont get abused(hopefully) when they don’t behave.
I think that the horse industry is a disgrace.
I am in total agreement with the feelings of others who are outraged by this incident. However it makes me worry how “outsiders” to this sport might take this information. I firmly believe if we want to save out sport, and not be shut down, we must clean up our sport, by conducting a thorough investigation of this incident, and demanding that action is taken of Mr. Morris if the facts prove our suspicions.
As we hopefully truly love out sport… I believe that we must take action to stop and prevent future incidents, if we expect to be able to compete and continue in this sport.
Just look at the fight of the foxhunters in England… If we want to have our sport in another decade, we better clean up out act!!!
I am not particularly a fan of George Morris. Though I enjoy his writings, in person his ego dwarfs his intellect and experience. I respect his accomplishments, but I can think of dozens of horsemen I would rather spend my life learning with before I’d feel the need to ride in a clinic with him.
Some of the charges here, though, reflect a serious lack of critical thinking. Several people have written that it is always wrong and unacceptably and even cruelly dangerous to jump over a metal pole in any circumstance. This is patently silly. There is nothing inherently more wrong about jumping metal than a big pile of lumber - it’s all in the setup of the elements. How many of you have old, damaged jump poles, bought ten years ago from the cheapest possible supplier, that you jump over every day?
Someone wrote that using a metal pole was cruel, and that instead the rider should have forced the horse into a deep spot for a rap.
Think critically, now. How is that better? How is it even different? Both are lying to the horse, in an attempt to get him to jump higher. If the horse successfully jumps higher, no rap. One just can’t be policed. (And frankly, most of us amateurs aren’t so good that we don’t lie to our horses by accident all the time, anyway. Is it so cruel that riding should be outlawed?)
I have never poled or worked with anyone who used any poling techniques, but I really appreciate William Steinkraus’ frank and thorough explanation (as quoted here earlier) in his book. I feel his argument is extremely well thought out and compelling for why the use of a metal pole on a fence could be valuable in schooling in certain circumstances, and what those might be. Bad poling is certainly abuse. But, like draw reins and gag bits, I can see that sometimes the use of a stationary pole could be a sensible, sane, and humane choice.
It sounds like this setup was not the safest possible given the sketchy descriptions I’ve read/inferred. But, that does not make it cruel, reckless, or criminal. Would it be criminal, cruel, or reckless if a trainer’s student suffered a severe brain injury because he allowed the student to jump with an unapproved helmet? We don’t prosecute people for murder or even reckless endangerment for allowing their loved ones to ride in Miatas instead of Volvos.
The death of a horse or rider in a riding accident is tragic, and I’m very sad for the people who loved that horse. I’m glad this incident came to light, as a reminder to all of us to be as safe as possible and think carefully about the methods we use. But, though Americans seem to have trouble with this concept, sometimes bad things just happen. There is not always someone to blame.
How very tragic and sad. Whatever was a metal pipe doing as part of a jump? I don’t understand this… 
That poor horse will be in my thoughts.
With respect to Steinkraus on poling, you have to read what he said in context. Here is the excerpt relating to poling from his book, Riding and Jumping (1969 edition, pages 84-88):
“Through the years I have listened to countless discussions of the pros and cons of poling, and recognize full well what violent emotions are stirred in the hears of many horse people whenever the subject is introduced. This is no doubt why most books on jumping either avoid the subject, or dismiss it with a few critical lines. Nonetheless, it remains very much one of the facts of the show jumper’s life … and so I must risk incurring the wrat of some of the more rabid disputants on the subject by exploring it here at some length.
Poling, like severe bits, sharp spurs or even high collection, is simply another “razor in the monkey’s hand”. True, one can condemtn all of these things in toto by arguing that they are likely to be done inexpertly, injudiciously, and perhaps cruelly by the majority of people who attempt to use them. … But be that as it may, some of the corrective techniques that come under the general heading of poloing can accomplish, in the hands of a skillful and experienced horseman, results that are beneficial and almost indispensible, under certain circumstances.”
Steinkraus then goes on to describe the current restrictions on poling on the show grounds, but goes to say "there still remains a wide range of practices that are employed at home – tack poles, tack rails, the rail on pulleys or held by two men, and bailing wire… What do all these devices hope to achieve? The obvious answer is “more clean rounds”. This hope is often frustrated in practice, for poling can produce results that range from excellent to atrocious, depending on the skill and discretion with which it is employed. Some forms of poling can correct faults in a horse’s jumping form, and can renew the respect of the careless horse for his fences – but poling can also destroy a horse’s confidence and turn him into a stopper of a lunatic. …
Steinkraus then goes on to say that in the process of daily schooling, horses often learn "that its not terribly important to jump fences absolutely clean. Since it must be an accepted fact of the horse’s life in the show ring that fences do have to be respected, how is that result to be achieved? He then goes on to discuss the techniques that can be used to “develop a horse who will try to jump clean (because life is awfully short to spend waiting for that wonderful, rare creature, the horse who is born with an instinct to jump everything clean). Of these techniques, he says, “the poling techniques that involve a person are the least satisfactory, for aside from the fact that the person can be seen, there is also a great possiblity of human error…”
Then he goes on to say “Wire and the light iron pipe are better, for they will not punish the horse for a perfect jump, and they eliminate the factor of human error. (The pipe that is offset on the near side of the fence, just even with the top rail, can be very helpful in correct the horse who is careless about bending his knees). However, they too can usually be seen by the horse, and if they are employed very often he will learn to discriminate between fences that have wire or a pipe near them and those that don’t.”
Finally, he goes on the consider the “simplest means of discouraging carelessness, the solid fence and the tack rail.” He says solid fences have a serious disadvantage – they penalize the bad mistake very severely, with a big knee or perhaps a fall…” Finally he considers the tack rail and says “The term has always seemed to me to have a particularly sinister sound – but if some artificial aid must be used to achieve the rather artificial end of absolutely clean jumping, and we are not afraid to consider it dispassionately, it probably has the most to recommend it. The normal rail that has been studded with small and very short nails will never punish a correct jump, but penalizes only carelessness. Furthermore, its appearance is perfectly normal, it involves no human agency, and requires no change at all in the riders’s style. I have never used it very much, and perfer to err on the side of using too few rather than too many artificial aids, but the few people I have observed who used it consistently seem to me to have produced the most satisfactory results.”
Thank you, Erin. We look forward to the Chronicle’s report. In the internet age we forget sometimes that not everything can be done instantaneously. There are obvious benefits and dangers in information being accessible to millions in seconds, and I suppose we should keep them in mind.
Yes, it’s true we shouldn’t judge untill we have the facts.
However… Why on Earth would the horse have hit the pole so very HARD!?! That is what I would like to know.
~Was the jump so big that the horse was not really capable of jumping it?
~Was the jump in some kind of course, gymnastic or othe thing that would cause them to meet the jump at a very bad distance?
These are the questions that interest me the most. The horse oviously didn’t just tap it, he hit it pretty hard…
i cant believe this!!! everyone in the entire horse industry needs to hear about this, they need to know what happens in our sport. practical horseman has him as one of the people that has helped shape this sport. why should he get away with this??? other people had to have seen it, why should he be protected? I realize that some people dont always believe what theyre told when it comes to acts of animal cruelty, but at least they are warned about it. he should be punished, severely!! McLain Ward was kicked out of shows because of things in his horses boots, which shouldnt happen either, but the horse didnt die!! Why should his name protect him!!!
Naive, perhaps, but everyone starts at the bottom and often it’s the first thing’s a person is taught that that person sticks with. Not always, granted, but still…
Not that I’ve been told, before going over a jump, that metal jumps are bad, but doing anything that could endanger a horse’s life goes against my sense of morals and self-respect. George, obviously, has a different opinion between right and wrong that has to be respected, but putting the offending pole back up after a deadly accident goes beyond morals.
Seems more like a metal pole is a shortcut to solid training and jumping basics. There are less harmful (physically AND mentally, especially mentally) ways to teach a horse to pick up it’s feet (and to teach a rider to ride) than slapping a metal pole as the top rail of a jump and sending them over it.
But I mean, fine, use a metal pole, but once a horse dies because of it, doesn’t that mean that something’s horribly wrong? And that maybe something should be changed? George made a mistake, ok, great, everybody makes mistakes. But the idea of a mistake is to learn from it, not repeat it. That’s what gets me…
COWBOY - I have not had my head in the sand - I have been saying for years that too many people regard horses as tools, and they fail to provide ethical treatment. Now when you compare horses to cattle, I have to admit, I have not had too many intimate relationships with cattle. I worked in a dairy barn one summer, and I dealt with feed lot calves at UC Davis, but I did not find them to be as deep in their soul as a horse. Do I think about where my leather comes from? You BET! And that is why I take care of my saddles and bridles so they last 20 years+. I also won’t eat commercially raised Beef, because I don’t believe in the feed lot industry. I have raised my own pigs - now there is an animal with great intelligence and a wonderful sense of humor. Death is not an awful thing to be avoided, it is inevitable - it is how the animals LIVE that matters. Sadly, cattle are best at producing food and leather, so that is how they are utilized. Horses have a unique position with man in that their purpose is to serve as a work partner - even if the work is dancing, or sport. And they seem to have a unique temperment that makes them generous and willing partners.
My concern with this issue is the broad scale use of gimmicks and ‘training techniques’ that are based on pain and intimidation to extract a little more effort from a horse. I am not at all sure what makes you say that a horse jumps for ‘survival’? I have horses that are turned loose in the jump ring to run, and they sail over fences volunterily. I DO have horses that piaffe and passage in the field - they also half pass, pirouette and extend the trot. And when I ride, I set them up with balance and intention, and then I allow them to offer what they can give. This is a very different attitude than the more prevalent one of Making the horse ‘get his head down’ or pick his feet up higher or stop faster with a longer slide or whatever!
I am only hopeful that this episode will be an eye opener for many people. Riders need to realize that this sort of ‘accident’ is the inevitable result when you start demanding more from the horse than he can offer willingly. There are hundreds of horror stories of horses flipping over from being lunged in too tight side reins, or in a chambon; and tales of horses who have been permanently maimed when things when wrong after the injection of their tail to prevent it from being swished during western pleasure classes! I hope that riders begin to think about their horse - and decide to honor the efforts that a horse will make if given the chance. This could be a real turning point in equestrianism - the gradual disappearance of short cuts and the return to classic horsemanship. The fact that this ‘accident’ happened with one of the leaders of the hunter/jumper industry is only significant in that it brings attention to the problem. I never said that GM was the only bad guy. It is an industry wide problem - and the solution will only come from the bottom up. If the clients start demanding ethical treatment of their horses, and vote with their feet and their pocketbooks, then the small handful of classic masters who know how to do it right, and refuse to force their horses to meet modern horse show standards, will rise to the top, and be recognised and rewarded for their knowledge. But if everyone simply villanizes one man, then it will be back to business as usual, with just a few new players at the top. Maybe George himself will begin to see the sad result of this ‘make them do it’ attitude, and with his political clout, he could really make a change. But this is a man who insults and badgers every student that rides with him - it will take a real metamorphosis to turn him into a compassionate kind and patient person who gladly accepts that each student - human or horse - is giving his best for that moment, and praises and assists every effort! But I believe in the Easter Bunny, and see miracles every day, so maybe, just maybe this could happen! 
What a wonderful day it would be for all horses! m
[This message has been edited by Monica S (edited 01-25-2000).]
I agree with everyone here that George Morris needs to be suspended, Sued and Worse, But everyone is also bashing the owner. If you all didn’t notice it said NOVICE on there. I think most any of us here when we were novices would have done what ever the great George Morris told us to do because when we were novices we didn’t know any better. I think we all should think about that a bit before we start bashing the owner.
Well said Lucian. Ken, bamboo would have broken upon impact with the horse. As would have wood, most likely.
[This message has been edited by Alexandra (edited 01-22-2000).]
For the dressage and other riders who are questioning where the metal pipe was it would have been used much like a rail. And for Ken, I have yet to see a horse implae itself on a wooden rail. i was always taught to make sure that your rails were bevaled in some way so that they would not roll when knocked off of a jump. hence the reason we spent many hours before a schooling show turning round poles into eight sided pole. If a wooden pole is going to be thin and round it shouldbe eaily broken upon impact.
Recenlty a young horse are our barn jumped a fence with a pvc pole… she hit the top rail with her back legs which sent it forward between her front legs, much as I suspect the metal pipe did, the horse ended up stumbling a stride or so and eventually stepping on the pole and shattering it. SHe was not injured nor even scrapped… she was a little shaken and did jump bigger the next time around. So horses can learn from their mistakes. She wa not injured and we were out one pole. No big deal.
I think people bringup good points that this is not a first time occurrance in the horse world. Poling and the like goes on… and it is because it is a big money sport. Sadly too many people end up with horses thatwere suppose to be great and then learn they really don’t have the desire or ability to jump at the level they were intended for. My birthmother had a horse… he came from a jumping and dressage line. he refused to jump over a dressage ring fence when he made circle too big in training… almost pulled something trying to step, flounder crash through the fence. She knew then and there that she woldn’t even attempt to point him at a real fence. he didn’t have it him in. More riders and traners need to face the facts… just cause a horse looks like it able to jump doesn’t always mean it will do it well. BUt that doesn’t really work in this sport with all thehigh sales commissions and money that goes around.
And while I don’t condone anger or name calling… I will be curious to see how people react when all the facts are out. Just think many people were very willling to bad mouth, name call and condeem Mclain Ward fro putting fingernail size shavings in his horses boots… which left no markings…and now we have George MOrris reportedly impaling horse on pipes…Just as I hope and somewhat continue to beleive that Mclain is not really in the wrong… it is hard to not realize that there are some unseemly practices in our sport. Many people asked where MClain learned his supposedly evil ways from… Neveryone was quick to blame his father… but it doesn’t look like Mclain had any good role models to chose from… I agree with another poster… I think I will stick to the little local shows. And If I want to make money from my horses I will run a trail riding stable. I worked at several trail riding businesses… and the horses were happy, well cared for and yes they made their owners money… and they didn’t have to be spurred, poled or strong bitted into being good.
Lets at least be comforted by the fact that the horse died instantly or at the very least quickly. And its most likely in a far better place and will never have to suffer again.
I also hope for the sake or our sport that this is all one big misunderstanding… maybe we’ll wake up tommorrow and it will all have been a bad joke and a nasty rumor… I really do hope.
Thank you Erin for your update. There is NO doubt in my mind that all involved are in their own private hells because of the emotion the incident generated as evidenced by 6 pages on this subject alone. I have no judgement to make until the facts are in and even then I cannot pass judgement for I am not perfect. I hope in time the clouds will lift for everyone, those that were there and those on this BB.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IlonaE:
Erin - really had to chuckle at your response to my inquiry on why the Chronicle and/or PH haven’t reported more information. You said the Chronicle isn’t CNN - well then why have a website which is being monitored constantly and then hide behind the “we only publish weekly” excuse? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The management at the Chronicle decided when we started the website that it would be a complement to the magazine rather than a competitor. All of the content is posted the same day that the printed issue comes out. In other words, the people who actually pay for the magazine aren’t getting stiffed because the information was available a week earlier on the web.
However, in certain cases, I will summarize our upcoming news items on this board because I feel that it’s important enough to get the details out as soon as possible. I think we did this in the case of the EIA outbreak in Pennsylvania this past fall, with the McLain Ward incident in Aachen, and a few others.
I promise, as soon as we get any news, I will pass it along. But we are a weekly magazine, and realistically speaking, our writers are going to work on a story that’s due tomorrow before working on the George story that’s not going in the magazine until next week. That’s just the way it works. 
Amen, Justbay…if we’re going to sanction the needless killing of horses, why not just roll PETA in and be done with it?
I will stand behind my statement that GM is a very harsh and demanding instructor. I have very good friends who have ridden in his clinics and they all tell the same story. Many of the participants were in tears. I have seen him teaching, and his knowledge is evident, but so is his demeaning attitude towards the students. Maybe once a rider has passed the acid test, he gets kinder - I have not stayed at Hunterdon, nor have I personally known anyone who became a ‘favorite student’ of GM. But Kathy J. - Have you seen him teach? Have you ridden for him? Are you saying that he DOESN’T throw dirt clods at students for not paying attention? I am not attacking, I am stating what I understand to be actual fact. His teaching style is harsh and domineering. He is entitled to teach with any style that he wants - he certianly makes more money than I ever will. My point was just that this is his attitude towards Human students - and I cannot believe that he would have a completely different one towards his horses. And I don’t really think he should be singled out and ‘punished’ for this incident. I think all the riders were willing participants, and that GM took a risk, and it backfired. And yet I am sure that he has used the same technique without incident 1000’s of other times. I don’t even think that there need to be further rules passed - I think that people either choose to operate morally, or they don’t. Rules are just something to ‘get around’, and they are more prone to penalize those people who seek to abide by them. No, my call is just for people to look at how many of the top trainers in the horse industry are treating horses. This is not a singular incident - it is a tragic pinacle of a tradition of coersive training stradegies. I wish for people to stop looking at horses as lazy clods who won’t work unless they are kicked, pulled and pushed into it. Yes, horses are by nature ‘conservative with their energy’ and we can use that to modify their behavior into something we desire by making the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard - but a well treated horse is a willing participant,and does not need to be made into a beaten slave who works out of fear of punishment. Trainers who cannot figure this out are doing the horses and their students a huge disservice, because they are shattering the bond that can exist between a horse and a rider. Trainers who scream at their students and batter their horses, or resort to gimmicks and tricks to extract a little more out of the horse are just demonstrating that they don’t have the patience or the knowledge to do it right - and they have to settle for a flawed outcome - which usually results in a horse who goes lame or mentally burns out and either becomes too tense to perform, or too dead to try. It also results in young riders who lose heart with the sport, and quit, or worse yet, riders who embrace the push-pull training phylosophy and go on to teach it to the next generation.
Isn’t it time we turned back? Can’t we consider something better? This isn’t about one man - or one horse’s death, it is about choosing a better path. And it is a personal choice that each rider makes each time they put a halter on a horse. But we need more good role models out there to help people learn the right way to communicate with a horse. People are HUNGARY for this. They know that they want that mystical centaur relationship that every child dreams of - but over the years they have begun to believe that it is not only elusive, it doesn’t exist. That you can’t work with horses that way. And so they settle for whatever is made available to them. We need to do better. And this incident may provide the catalyst for this kind of change. And if GM ‘sees the light’ and leads the way, I will happily fall in line behind him and carry the banner! But if he doesn’t, then I will continue to shout ‘It Can Be Better, Kinder, and More FUN than this!’. m
i was reading one of the earlier posts that said that a metal post is used, by some, to teach a horse to jump higher, that it hurts to hit it, now this might sound stupid, but i want to know when scaring the living daylights out of a horse or rider became the right way to train them?!
