I have been unable to get this terrible situation out of my mind. All of us who love and enjoy horses have now been drawn into this awful, selfish, thoughtless problem.
I think Mr. Morris should immediately leave the show grounds, go home to New Jersey. Place his membership in any associations and committees on hold until this situation is straightned out.
My admiration for this man has been destroyed.
This is an embarresment of monumental proportion to every horseman, everywhere.
Well said Monica…
I’m posting this for Tricia (Gopher), who’s unable to access the boards at the moment:
We were finally able to reach George Morris. The comments above are correct–he’s not able to comment due to the possiblity of litigation. But he’s not avoiding the issue. He’s very upset about the incident and says he will comment upon the situation as soon as he is able.
Thursday’s incident took place during the Littlewood Horse Show, not part of the Winter Equestrian Festival circuit. An official from Littlewood said that none of those involved were entered at the horse show. In addition, the ring was not part of the show grounds.
Perhaps we should all wait and reserve judgment until we know all the facts. And I know George is the type of person who will address this issue head-on as soon as it’s feasible.
Tricia
"THE TURN OF THE CENTURY…
WITH GEORGE H. MORRIS
Fads Come And Go And Nature Takes Care Of WhatÂ’s Unnatural
It’s hard for me to look into the future—I have enough to cope with living in the present one day at a time!
“What goes up, must come down.” “Things go full circle.” “What goes around, comes around.” IÂ’ve usually found all of these “truisms” fairly accurate. Extremes never work, fads come and go and nature takes care of whatÂ’s unnatural. This is where we are in the horse business as the millennium comes to a close."
Found this to be quite amusing…
Mr Kraus, it’s not hatred, it’s outrage. There’s a big difference! Yes, he has 50+ yrs, thus knowing better does come to mind! Do you have some kind words for the animal who died from this “unfortunate accident”??
The Noblest way that my horses could die is peacefully, on green grass. Whether assisted to this passing by a kind and loving vet, or just lying down and failing to wake. I see no honor in a horse having to lay down his life in response to a request that I made of him. It would haunt me forever! And if continuing of as if nothing happened were the best course after a trauma, then why do schools shut down when there has been a horrible event there. Why do they offer greif counciling - why don’t they just get on with the business of teaching?
No I cannot agree with you that it took courage for GM to continue the clinic. It took arrogance. He is so sure that what he does is right that it would never occur to him to change a thing. “just a freak accident” he would proclaim (and will yet). He will offer some statement of regret of the loss of a fine horse, and say how the sport involves risk, etc. At the top levels, nothing will change. Change will only occur from the bottom up. We must make a decision not to support this attitude of “making our horses perform better” and we can do it by recognising those who support that sort of training, and avoiding them. We can also announce to their sponsors, and the publications that carry their teachings that we are boycotting their products. And we need to Give support to those trainers who have effective and yet honorable means of training the horse. We need to accept that good riding takes time to learn, and requires a committment from the rider. And proper training of the horse takes even longer, and it will cost money. But if we are willing to invest that time, and that money, we will wind up with a far superior horse than one who has been rushed and forced to do more than he can. The trust of a young horse is like the bloom of a fresh rose. Once it is lost, it is never completely recovered. And kind treatment doesn’t mean that the horse will never be reprimanded or asked to try. It just means that every step, the horse will be given a choice, and his physical and mental state will be considered. When a horse says NO, there is a reason. It is fear or pain or confusion. It is never Just Willfulness. IF the horse is positively motivated to try for the rider, then he will try with all his heart and all his soul. And if the rider doesn’t believe that, then the horse is the loser. And in this case, the horse was the biggest loser of all. m
Is there a person here who witnessed this accident? I am still in a state of incredulousness that a metal pole was used in a clinic by any instructor. Either as an element of a jump or as a poling device it reeks of ineptitude and carelessness.
I have often heard The Goerge is an egomaniac with a style most consider something they have to deal with just because he is who HE is. This incident ought to make people take notice and say HIS STYLE does not make him right if he is wrong.
If the facts so far are thus: A horse died while being impaled on a metal pole George told the person to jump, then the clinic continued like nothing happened (or that’s the breaks), then the AHSA has to slap Mr. Morris with a negligence suit. Myself, if were my horse, my lawyer would already be on the phone to him.
Words cannot begin to express my anger and pain from reading this post just now. Strangely, this kind of behavior from GM doesn’t surprise me. I’ve heard stories about how he conducts his clinics…this seems to be the one that takes the cake, though.
I tell ya…I’ve been outa showing for the past couple of years while raising my colt, and I really thought I’d return to the show ring. I’m not sure if I can handle the insanity, though. Training methods have gotten out of hand, and our governing bodies don’t really seem to care.
As far as GM goes, I’d like to ask him how it feels to be responsible for causing such a senseless death of an animal he supposedly likes. I couldn’t even bring myself to say “love” in that last sentance because what he did, in my eyes, is the equivilant of abuse.
Funny how a few years ago the rage in the horseworld was against the Walking Horse people regarding their harsh training methods…Mr. Morris is pretty much the same.
I respected him a while back…when I was more naiive. I don’t care what his position is in our industry. He should lose it over such unspeakable arrogance. What an aweful person to have done this and continued the clinic…what a dumb and hearless rider to take the same jump with a different horse.
Portia,
Poling is against FEI rules, sorry can’t quote the sections. They have must stronger statements against it than the AHSA.
Kathy J - I agree with you about continuing.
As far as continuing to school the exact same fence, again, outside the context of poling. Christopher Reeve suffered a terrible accident, I am sure the fence is still used. My former trainer was paralyzed on a coffin, he still schools students over it and it is used in competition. And I am sure it was difficult for him to watch his students jump it for the first time after the accident. I know it was difficult to ride it. I also know I woman who broke her neck (and thankfully will recover) schooling a 3’6" oxer comprised only of eight sided wooden rails, no extra jump cups, set on excellent footing. Are we going to stop jumping those? It was a terrible, terrible accident.
Pat
I began writing almost as you stated, that since the alleged incident is not said to have occurred on the show grounds then the AHSA would have no jurisdiction but then I considered the Ward matter. Wasn’t the basis of the Barney W. suspension a conviction for insurance fraud? Nothing to do with an actual show? That’s when I went to review the rulebook.
Now, as to Mr. Morris - I was not there nor were any of my close friends, thus, I cannot be a judge of the incident. The reaction to the reports we have received thus far have been harsh but if in the end it works to promote the health and safety of the horses then it will have been overall to the betterment of our sports I would think. As with the worries expressed all year over the deaths of horses involved in the crosscountry phase of combined training we must be aware of how these events might affect the public perception of our sports.An interesting post.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by M. O’Connor:
[B]There is no question in my mind that whatever happened in WPB was a tragic incident that will have reprecussions for everyone involved and for equestrian sports overall.
And rightfully so.
“If anyone truly believes that the people who were present and who were responsible for the horse have not been through a life altering experience, they are simply ignorant about the far reaching and insidious effects of experiencing genuine trauma.”
Really? How brave of them to forge ahead with the clinic…and continue to use the offending pole. Exactly what “question” does this pose for the horse/rider, I wonder?)
“Piling on the pre-judgement and second-guesses with all the benefits of hindsight is a luxury that can be enjoyed only at long-distance by those who are fortunate enough not to have been involved; doing so does nothing to remedy the situation that has occured, and does not in any way serve to prevent freak accidents from occuring in the future.”
“Freak accident?” A professional schooling amateurs over a metal pole???
“Though we can all agree that the death of this animal was horrible, who is to say that it was any more horrible than the countless deaths suffered by the cattle that provide the many hides our saddles and bridles and boots are made of? Or more horrible than the slow death from neglect that the many horses we all have known in our pasts suffer after they have passed from hand to hand until old age renders them useless.”
You’re right…let’s nominate GM
for humanitarian of the year. Incidentally, Tommy Burns was very proud of the humane deaths he affected using electrocution.
I, for one, would be very interested in learning the facts of the matter; but who exactly do you think is going to publish them?
I must have missed something (I mean this honestly I had to catch up on 4 pages) do we really know that every participant in the clinic jumped the metal pole?
Wow Lois. Cruelty to an animal resulting in its death is probably a local and state offense.
And just because poling with metal is done regularly in this industry doesn’t mean it is okay.
Maybe when something like this is pounced on, it will send a message.
I hope that message isn’t ‘do it without witnesses’.
The comment that ‘we would be throwing members out on a daily basis’ is saying quite a bit about the situation.
Cruelty resulting in an animals death is not a matter to be taken lightly.
Everyone is so skittish about the SPCA and other animal protection groups.
If we don’t want their intrusion, then we need to set our own standards higher, and make everyone EVERYONE accountable…
ACCIDENT? What might that definition be?
I don’t think Accident fits the situation of someone deliberately placing a dangerous object in the way of a horse.
Yes, we should wait until the facts are in.
But, as history will confirm, people will continue to speculate until George speaks.
When something this horrific occurs, it is quite impossible to silence the shocked reactions.
And, if we sat quietly-by, saying nothing, without this out-pour. it would be sadder. And that too would be the wrong message.
Silence on either side promotes speculation.
We wait for George to speak.
Please Abby, don’t generalize about people’s reactions to this. The people I know that are in WPB right now are very upset about this incident. Generalizations, no matter how well intended, are unfair and undermine the legitimacy of a discussion.
Everyone reacts to grief/trauma differently, and copes with it differently. If someone’s reactions/coping mechanisms differ from one’s own, one should not assume they feel nothing.
Keyboard colicking, would rather refrain from addressing this event and discussion until it’s not. Also, there are still gaps and uncertainties in the reports of what actually happened…this must of necessity color reactions, opinions, and comments.
Although I was not present for the terrible accident that caused a beautiful animal to perish, the complete lack of regard for both the animal and amateur rider, who was exposed to the reprehensible actions of one of the so called ‘top trainers in the country’, is shameful and should be punished.
The use metal pipes to construct a fence instead of a breakaway woodent pole gives the indication that the “Little General” is totally callous and cares little for the horse or rider.
By definition, an amateur rider should always train and ride in such controlled environments as to minimize injury. The use of metal pipes, especially with an amateur, goes against all axioms used in amateur riding.
The AHSA is not recognized for its forthright approach to retribution and punishment against well known people in the horse world unless it’s hand is forced, as evidenced by the most recent insurance scams. In those cases, as we all know, the AHSA has backed down to the pressures from the small minds in the inner circle of alleged vigilant equestrians who, in fact, care little for the riders, owners, or horses and only wish to pad their own wallets with the spoils of cruelty.
The “Little General’s” attempts to cover up his failures as a human being by fabricating a story in which the horse impaled itself with caulks and not own up to the truth of the horse dying due to a metal pole piercing the horses heart is just an embellishment of his callous attitudes to rider and horse alike. An example must be made of the “Little General” and at the minimum suspension from all activities relating to horse shows, a significant fine, a personal apology to the horse world and limitation of involvement with amateurs for an extended period of time.
I’m not sure if the this trainer can be reformed. We’ve all seen the pomposity of his actions in the past and his feelings of self worth. Unfortunately, we cannot expect a change in someone who has so little regard for anyone other than himself. Therefore, it is time to challenge the governing body of the AHSA to take control of this member.
I don’t know why I continue to be amazed at the angry crowd mentality of the posts on these forums. With the barest of facts everyone is ready to condemn. Yes, it is a horrific accident, but if any of you knew George personally, you would know that this incident did not leave him unaffected. George is a very caring person with horses and other animals. Everyone that knows him knows of his love for his dogs and horses.
I have known George for several years now, and I can assure you that all of the horses in his care are treated with the utmost respect. He is a true horseman, and I have never seen him put ribbons or prize money ahead of what is best for the horse.
Until all of the facts are heard, perhaps everyone can wait before cursing the man.
Just because a prominent trainer has been doing something for a while doesn’t mean he doesn’t know better. Thus why way earlier I said that even I, a beginner nobody who has every intention of remaining a beginner nobody (except I’d like to jump higher <G> ), know that using a metal pole as part of a jump is dangerous, physically and mentally abusive, and altogether wrong. George Morris most likely knew that using a metal pole had many possible VERY dangerous outcomes, and that it was a training shortcut. Why he used it, well, that’s for him to explain, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that even us little nobody’s who really don’t amount for much know better. And there are a lot of us nobody’s out there, backyard riders, whatever. Those who go to shows for experience, the chance to progress with a horse, and to meet new people, when the coveted ribbon is only an added bonus. I truly hope that many people at the high level shows go for the same reasons. (I really can’t speak for that, never btdt) IMO it’s not naive to say “even I know better” because even I know that a metal pole is mentally harmful to the horse and therefore abusive. And obviously there are even more dire consequences than just a mentally scared animal. Also, KNOWING that there were very large risks, and that such a technique is an undesirable shortcut, doesn’t that make any one employing the technique ignorant? He/She’s ignoring the fact that it’s dangerous and using it anyways. This applying to all show abuse and otherwise - drugs, bloodletting, tack rails/poling/etc, saddleseat abuse, and eerything else. To focus on winning at all costs is ignorant and very very sad.
more food for thought, though: Did an english diploma today, one of the stories spoke of “winning” (wars, but still). Said something to the likes of “When you win, you actually lose. It is not success that is important, but to ACHIEVE.”
So, I guess, with that in mind, anyone using tack rails, poling, etc is really losing, even if they get a red…er…blue ribbon out of it. (sorry, canadian). And all of us who work to better ourselves and our horses and HAVE FUN doing it are really the “winners”. Has anyone ever noticed how amazing it feels when your soul merges with the horse’s soul and suddenly their feet don’t seem to touch the ground? Gimmicks don’t create that…If anything, they destroy it.
I wonder, too, if George talked to his students about the accident afterwards? Everytime something goes wrong in any of our lessons, my instructor goes over it “Why did this happen, what could be done to prevent it”. I really wonder if George did this, something that would put the riders at ease, perhaps lesson the shock/pain, and make a senseless tradgedy into a learning experience (so that even thought it’s a horrible horrible tragic event, at least some good will have come of it - perhaps prevention of future mishaps). Like, say, disposing of the offending pole and replacing it with something safer, admitting a mistake was made and that a lesson was learned…I guess we can hope…
nobody mind me, just a tad opinionated on the subject (enough so to do a really big research on it last year…)
I think everyone has agreed that jumping metal poles is dangerous. Jumping is dangerous, but then so is driving your car up the street or skiing or walking downtown at night.
The point in question is whether George Morris exposed the horse and rider to an unacceptable degree of danger.
I don’t know about you all, but I occasionally jump things or do things that I would never ask or expect someone else to do. Just because I accept a certain level of risk for myself does not mean that it is OK to impose upon someone else that same level.
When a trainer asks a horse and/or rider to do something, it is the trainers responsibility to remove any foreseable dangers from the area. If a horse is not jumping correctly, the trainer needs to set up exercises that encourage the horse to jump in correct form. If a hard rap on the leg is what is deemed necessary, octagonal rails or planks set in deep cups are much SAFER than metal poles. What did using a metal pole teach that rider? Or anyone else, for that matter. When conducting a clinic or lesson, it is the trainer’s responsibility to give the students TOOLS THAT THEY ARE ABLE TO USE, not gimicks that should only be used by a select few professionals.
I have read everything that has been posted here and many thoughts go through my head at the same time. Some of you have one horse that means the world to you. You love it with all your heart and think of it as a part of you and your life. Others have many horses and by this is it indicates the same thing. Horses are a great part of you and your life.
Horse showing is a particularly demanding sport that causes riders to seek answers to many problems they have trying to make their horse a winner. People pay astronomical amounts of money for GELDINGS hoping to own ar ride a top notch winner. WINNING becomes more important than the animal.
The incident we are reading about is such a case. The saddest part is that the horse did not ask to be there. It was required to be there by a rider wishing to become a winner. This rider was looking to one of the highest level trainers for help to achieve success…not the tragic loss which occurred. The trainer was thoughtless in his process to create a winner. Effort to correct a problem went sour… by thoughtlessness carelessness, and complacent behavior has infuriated horse lovers everywhere.
We have lost horses by some strange incidents. We have not discussed things with others. Our sadness is our own. We have received criticism as sometimes happens. However, we would not be riding and working as hard as we do if it were not for our love of these magnificent animals.
To be a fly on the wall would be interesting right now to see how all involved in the tragic incident really reacted and how they really feel. Loss of a horse is always hard. But, we go on.
Poor decisions were made. Strong responses have been said. Remorse should have been shown. Leaders have a responsibility to apply these efforts. Without it they loose their respect of those around them… I see that here. Truely, a result of many of the thoughts expressed before me. Many of them are probably close to correct. Sad isn’t it?
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