[QUOTE=Rachel L;2987825]
Really? Which parts?[/QUOTE]
PP used to play up the licking and chewing as giving in and I think still does the being another herd member to horses.
Those come easily to mind as some basic similarities to parts of how he presents his program, without needing to reread all that again.
At times he uses those images for effect on his spiel, others he means them literally.
Eclectic Horseman: Sorry, in the midst of posting while multitasking I wrote a wrong word.
I DID NOT EXPECT such a vitriolic response.
My first thought of a response is unprintable. I thought better of it and am taking the high road.
Quoting JB: (This is the last line of the post Eclectic Horseman responded to, and quoted):
Just because something isn’t done “the classical dressage way” doesn’t necessarily mean it’s wrong.
Quoting the response by Eclectic Horseman: Not wrong. Just NOT DRESSAGE.
LET ME REPHRASE:
SO, is anything not classical not dressage? Who’s classical? French, German?
There are no new ideas, only classical ones?
Loretta.
Respond or not, but be nice. I am being nice.
lorilu - my interpretation - I don’t think the implication was classical = dressage (there have certainly been enough discussions regarding classical vs competitive dressage). However - the basic tenets of dressage, as most of us would explain it, is that the training of the horse (from dressager, French “to train”) results in an animal that is physically stronger and more elastic and supple, without tension or resistance. I think it was perhaps said best earlier in this thread: that the 7 games ask a horse to do something, and the end result is that the horse moves away from pressure - the emphasis being on that movement. In dressage, the end result incorporates the journey - the horse must be supple, elastic, balanced, through, not in resistance, not tense. The premise is to make the horse physically better, capable of using their bodies in balance and doing movements in balance even with a rider on their backs.
And certainly, Parelli isn’t saying anything new.
And if you want PNH to sign off on your Level 1 basic 7 games, there had better not be any tension or worry or “flight” behavior exhibited by the horse, or you will fail.
In dressage, the end result incorporates the journey - the horse must be supple, elastic, balanced, through, not in resistance, not tense. The premise is to make the horse physically better, capable of using their bodies in balance and doing movements in balance even with a rider on their backs.
And that’s different from proper application of Parelli work…how? It’s not. The goal of PNH is to create a supple, elastic, balanced, unresistant, untense horse who can do things like transitions and changes of direction in balance, with a rider on their back. Continuing down the Dressage path, teaching specific movements, refining the above, refining the aids, continues that journey towards its desired end result. Dressage people, or any discipline-specific people, just don’t call anything they teach by any “game” name.
And certainly, Parelli isn’t saying anything new.
And why do you and others continue to say this, when NOBODY on this thread, or any NH thread in recent history, has said he’s done something new?
well, hopefully, lorilu, between myself and JB, at least we got the “classical” part of your query dealt with!
:lol::lol::lol:
You have to concede though, whether you are pro PP or anti PP or on the fence or just plain don’t care re: PP…it is absolutely BRILLIANT marketing. Approach and engage someone with a good reputation, who has legions of followers, many of whom are likely disenchanted with “competitive” dressage and many of whom will on the basis of a kind word from WAZ, look into Parelli and probably, at least, spring for a DVD and a carrot stick.
If the current Parelliites say “but Pat, wasn’t dressage evil?” you can say “ah but this guy is different, this guy understands” Savvy" and he can offer the path to true dressage savviness. And look, we have a book coming out"
Absolutey brilliant. :yes:
[QUOTE=Mozart;2989123]
You have to concede though, whether you are pro PP or anti PP or on the fence or just plain don’t care re: PP…it is absolutely BRILLIANT marketing. Approach and engage someone with a good reputation, who has legions of followers, many of whom are likely disenchanted with “competitive” dressage and many of whom will on the basis of a kind word from WAZ, look into Parelli and probably, at least, spring for a DVD and a carrot stick.
If the current Parelliites say “but Pat, wasn’t dressage evil?” you can say “ah but this guy is different, this guy understands” Savvy" and he can offer the path to true dressage savviness. And look, we have a book coming out"
Absolutey brilliant. :yes:[/QUOTE]
Yes, he’s trying to extend his core audience. But neither WAZ nor dressage as a whole really offers much in the way of numbers. In fact, it’s a better deal for dressage than it is for PNH. There are hundreds of thousands of PNH folks. As a result of this partnership, I’d imagine there would be at least some who look into dressage, like what they see and get involved.
Now if PNH were extended to include PNDT – Parelli Natural Dog Training – THAT would open up a huge new audience.
[QUOTE=egontoast;2979110]
Are dressage trainers ‘just trying to be more aesthetic’ with their fancy schmancy training scale which is really no different than someone’s PATented groundwork exercises?
Is this THE TRUTH or is it all about kool aid or hogwash or just plain ole greenbacks?[/QUOTE]
What I got out of reading WAZs post was, to pull a quote from him, "All these riders LOVE their horses and thanks to the Parelli teaching program, they have very soft hands, very good balance, and can sit independent of the hand, because they ride a lot without saddle and bridle, in all gaits and jumping. "
So I think he is looking for a healthier more organic approach to dressage today, that is what I think he means by more aesthetic — less mechanical, rigid results for both horse and rider.
[QUOTE=Mozart;2989123]
.PP…it is absolutely BRILLIANT marketing. :yes:[/QUOTE]
I must disagree. Brilliant marketing proves itself over time through integrity that shows in all aspects of the organization, from a superior product/service to superior customer service to the way employees are treated to honest communications. :yes: Everything else is relatively short-lived hokus-pokus.
[QUOTE=InsideLeg2OutsideRein;2989626]
I must disagree. Brilliant marketing proves itself over time through integrity that shows in all aspects of the organization, from a superior product/service to superior customer service to the way employees are treated to honest communications. :yes: Everything else is relatively short-lived hokus-pokus.[/QUOTE]
No, that’s good business practice. Not to be confused with mere brilliant marketing. And the PP machine is a good example of the difference.
I’ll side with InsideLeg2OutsideRein on the marketing.
There are many types/schools of dressage: if the Dutch can start one with reintroducing RK and disrespecting founding fathers as ODGs, then why not PP start another school… 
just one more technique for the Global Dressage Forum to feature
Would love to see Pat can handle the crowd over there in a Panel Discussion — Pat Parelli and Behead Janssen square off on techniques.
[QUOTE=sm;2989691]
I’ll side with InsideLeg2OutsideRein on the marketing.
There are many types/schools of dressage: if the Dutch can start one with reintroducing RK and disrespecting founding fathers as ODGs, then why not PP start another school… just one more technique for the Global Dressage Forum to feature
Would love to see Pat can handle the crowd over there in a Panel Discussion — Pat Parelli and Behead Janssen square off on techniques.[/QUOTE]
I think some of us would like to see one of the Pepperonis actually “do” Dressage. You know, the “down center line” at a horse show, in front of a Judge kind??? :lol:
Well, Monty Roberts is now a regular at that forum. Maybe they could be roomies…
Maybe. Or maybe he’s just sat down with Pat and finally gotten a clue about what the average “dressage” rider really wants - someone to talk about the LOVE … someone who will endorse running to NH instead of taking the time and opening their mind to understand what submission means in dressage … someone who will praise them for where they are and tell them it’s all good… that it’s OK for them to ride the way they do.
sigh I would have to agree. It’s not a great time in dressage with all the factions and cross purposes, and now it seems like there will be even more.
But who would have guessed that the antidote for PowerandPainting a horse with no repercussions might be PP?
It is scary but inevitable. We are moving out of an era of lifetime horse people into one with a lot of people who have taken up riding as adults… who have never trained a dog let alone dealt with a 1400 lb herd animal. They come into riding with a fantasy intact and will move from discipline to discipline, trainer to trainer, until they find someone who will humor them. Smart (read $$$) trainers capitalize on this… feed the romance and the illusions… and IMO that is what WAZ has decided to do. Goodness knows, this has to be tied into all those Gypsy Vanner breeders! WHO is buying those horses!!! The romantics, of course.
He probably figures if you can’t beat them, join them… because clearly that is where the money is at. I really can’t blame him, because I don’t think it is going to change. He’s old, he’s probably tired and he’s probably needing to finance a retirement soon. Poor man.
[QUOTE=monstrpony;2989662]
No, that’s good business practice. Not to be confused with mere brilliant marketing. And the PP machine is a good example of the difference.[/QUOTE]
monstrpony, casual reading for you: :winkgrin:
http://www.brandbuilding.com/books_truth.php
Maybe WAZ just saw a need with Parelli’s and decided to be helpful. That makes the most sense-no hidden agenda, no selling out-just seeing a need and stepping in to fill it.
I personally think people would be THRILLED that the Parelli’s are working with WAZ. They are taking lessons with me so learning from him.
The entire Parelli program, all of those that are devoted to the program and the horses owned by them will only benefit.
It is beyond me that people just can’t find the good in something.
Criticize Parelli for not understanding correct dressage, then criticize the program for trying to improve.
Can’t win.
if improve is making more money, it’s doing a great job.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
