Sigh - more designer breeds

The caption says that photo was taken in 1947, which makes me think that it could possibly have been the head type common at that time for Boxers. Or it could have been poorly bred - as S1969 says - or it could have been a mix. (1947 was a wee bit before my time in the dog show world.)

FWIW, the current Boxer AKC standard was adopted in 2005. It states that the “blunt muzzle is 1/3 the length of the head from the occiput to the tip of the nose.” It’s a bit hard to tell from the angle of the photo, but the muzzle on Holiday’s Boxer does look like it is longer than 1/3 the length of the head.

Its head shape actually reminds me of some pics I have seen of shelter dogs referred to as "American Boxers.’ (On the other hand, some American Boxers look a lot more like “pitbulls” than Boxers.)

And I have to say, I much prefer the head type of the more modern Boxer. A well-bred Boxer is not only incredibly “handsome,” it still gives the appearance of a sturdy working dog.

I agree on the “Just No.”

And does “high quality breeder in Missouri” = “puppy mill”?

But God bless you for taking in a dog in need.

Amen, sister! I love watching Westminster and various other shows on TV but the National Specialties are really where it’s at.

3 Likes

Yes, pretty much the entire body of an adult male is scissored; maybe somewhat less for bitches and puppies, but some of them are pretty hairy. The neck is shaved, and the hind end cleaned up - I’m ok with both of those as they help show the actual neck and tail set as well as the pelvis/hips and hocks. But a lot of hair is removed from the “ruff” around the top of the neck and shoulders so that it looks more smooth and scissoring all through the body and the tail - it’s really hard to do that and have it look natural. This is my male who has a very, very nice coat, but it can grow pretty long, especially over the shoulders. I can try to get a picture of his fat, ungroomed self later today.

I don’t groom myself as I have access to one of the country’s best groomers, but I really should get better at it and more self-sufficient. Or plan to show in the rain more often. :slight_smile:

4 Likes

Wow, I had no idea. It isn’t a breed we see very often as “pets” (don’t recall ever seeing one at the dog parks), so I always thought the ones I remembered seeing at shows were “au naturale.”

And I guess I really shouldn’t be the one talking about “show grooming” versus the “au naturale” look. I have a Welsh Terrier and the difference between the two looks is like night and day. (Have to say I much prefer the “show groom” - clean and elegant and oh so handsome.)

But even the ones in show groom are not froo-froo dogs - they still look like sturdy, useful dogs that can do what they were originally bred to do. .
image

image

6 Likes

To get back on topic of designer breeds - I was at the vet yesterday for my girl’s annual wellness check and there was a guy there that bred French Bulldogs and “exotic Bulldogs.”

What the heck is an “Exotic Bulldog?” I wanted to ask him but he was in a conversation with the vet and I didn’t get a chance to talk to him.

I have a pitador, lab pit mix. I figure if other mutts can have cutesy “breed” names, Buster Brown can too. Buster was a dumpee.

1 Like

But fashions are fashions and judges have their personal preferences. Breeders see what wins and follow the preferences of the top judges and these preferences become usual and thus ‘standard’ with time. I wish breed societies were as definite about standards and judging as you and I think they should be.

When I was purchasing horses for our riding club all the horses in the stables soon came to be very similar because, in my view, they were the type that met club requirements and I was the person choosing them.

I have a book about Horse Breeds, written by a notable horseman, published in 1964, that firmly says Shire horses do not exceed 16.3 but Shires today are well over that - because tall show horses win, not the ones at a functional work height.

Western Pleasure is an example of practical, reasonable standards becoming over exaggerated in the show ring - but that is my ignorant personal view not that of the current judges and so not of the participants.

4 Likes

Aw he’s gorgeous. Here’s my guy just now…I chopped a few inches of hair off his tail yesterday but otherwise hasn’t been groomed since July. And could stand to lose about 5 lbs too.

6 Likes

Gator headed. Attractive huh
image

2 Likes

Ha, I wish I could say he was mine. I grabbed a couple of photos from Google Images to show the difference between the Welshie show groom and natural appearance. This is my girl from the day she finished her AKC championship and went BoB. I don’t really have any photos of her ungroomed because I don’t like the “street urchin” look, so she goes for stripping/clipping etc every 4 weeks.
image

4 Likes

Our first dog was a labradoodle. It was almost 20 years ago. We didn’t know shit from Shinola regarding dogs. My husband just thought they were cute. We literally got him off a classified ad in the newspaper.

Lucky for us, he was the most wonderful dog you could ever imagine.

But if I knew then what I know now, I would NEVER have bought the dog. After all, what kind of dog did we really “need?” We were just looking for a nice, couch potato-y pet who was good with kids and relatively well behaved. Let’s be honest – this is the job description for a huge majority of American dogs.

I could’ve gone to a rescue organization and gotten a dog that would’ve fit our family just fine. I would’ve saved a life, and I would’ve avoided propping up the breeding industry, which I philosophically now disagree with (in most, but not all, cases).

Point being: I think the demand for these whatever-doodles is generated largely by folks who don’t know much about dogs (and yet everyone thinks they do).

3 Likes

Ah, a Bull Gator. I thought that term meant an adult male of the crocodilian family - LOL.

It looks like a cross between an AmStaff and a Bulldog. I guess there are some people who find that look appealing, but I’m not one of them. Back when I was dog-showing, we had some American Staffordshire Terriers in our show string - they were beautiful specimens (#1 and #2 in the country) and were also great family dogs with sweet and funny personalities (just had to be careful to not put males with males or females with females).

3 Likes

Well, Labs and Poodles are generally “kid-friendly” for sure. Whether they are “well-behaved” depends on their training and even though both breeds are certainly high in “trainability,” there are way too many people who don’t know HOW to train. And they certainly don’t understand the commitment in training needed for a fast-growing, boisterous, exuberant puppy.

Agree - and again, they just don’t really get it about the training aspect for these boisterous, high-energy, and (oftentimes) large dogs.

2 Likes

I couldn’t agree more! This is where I think young dogs and young horses are alike. The purchase price is only the tip of the iceberg. If you’re not committed to spending the money on good professional training, look out.

Personally, I know my limitations. I am a lover of dogs, but not a good trainer. So I tend to rescue adults and seniors with good basic manners. I guess it’s akin to buying an older BTDT horse. For the most part, I know what I’m getting!

7 Likes

Oh my… where is the fruitbat? My heart dog was a Boxer… great boy, he was a little taller and his nose was a little longer than standard, but he was Boxer through and through. Pain in the butt at times, but great personality.

Why someone would want to breed the dog that takes forever to mature, and is smart enough to get into everything with a stubborn bulldog… ummmmm yeah. That’s a disaster. Also 12-25 inches and 50-150 lbs??? So basically they’re just breeding these things and it’s a crap shoot on what you get.

2 Likes

Hi, I’m Eileen and I’m the proud and honored Mom of LhasaPoos
Rodeo was a first generation cross
Polo is a second cross back from a poodle.

Well, if you’re willing to jump into this conversation –

What made you choose a LhasaPoo instead of a Lhasa Apso or Poodle?
Did your breeder health check the parents, and/or were they from good representatives of the breeds?

I won’t ask what you paid for them, but obviously I’m curious.

7 Likes

Worth repeating ~ thank you Dr. D. for your insightful post ~ as always !

6 Likes

I’d love to read/learn about this. First I’ve heard of toe clipping. Any historical readings I can find online?