Sigh - more designer breeds

[S1969]

The breeders have to be the ones to do the right thing. It’s expected that buyers may not know, or care, about the standard. But breeders should have some moral obligation to the breeds themselves. Clearly many feel their obligation is to make money.

FWIW, Dachshunds are allowable in “merle” (correctly defined as dapple). You do see them from time to time, but the solid colors are more common.

As the Chis - they are supposed to be very small. 5-8" and not exceeding 6 lbs. Most pet Chis are too big, and 15-20 is a monster. It might still be purebred, just a horrible specimen.

[beowulf]

I am not a goldendoodle breeder, but my understanding after talking to a few is the most consistent product tends to be F1. F2 can be unreliable in terms of phenotype or disposition.

I wouldn’t go so far as to say that anyone producing F1s is a crappy back yard breeder. There’s value in the F1s, especially if they are going to pet homes. I’m sure some are BYBs, but not all.

[S1969]

@beowulf

I am not a goldendoodle breeder, but my understanding after talking to a few is the most consistent product tends to be F1. F2 can be unreliable in terms of phenotype or disposition.

I wouldn’t go so far as to say that anyone producing F1s is a crappy back yard breeder. There’s value in the F1s, especially if they are going to pet homes. I’m sure some are BYBs, but not all.

Of course F2s are unreliable. That’s why you need to then select for the traits and continue to breed only those that meet the standard. That’s what “breeding” means. It’s not the same as “reproducing.”

Not sure about Goldendoodles, but Labradoodles have a registry, and it requires a 6 generation pedigree. So, yeah, at least in Labradoodles - anyone breeding F1s is just crossbreeding for money - because no one with a quality Lab or Poodle would allow it. And if they aren’t conducting the health testing that the breed club recommends, they are crappy, too.

For Breeders - ALAA

[Rackonteur]

Thank you. I wondered why I’d been seeing so many dappled Dachshunds in recent years!

[Simkie]

Wow, that registry is interesting. Their book isn’t closed–check out the “infusion” section:

Breeder FAQ - ALAA

Cockers??? Had NO idea they played any roll in the doodles anywhere!

[S1969]

Yes I saw that; but it does look like there are rules for an infusion breeding. I don’t know much about it, but I’m pretty sure they can’t be accepted by a kennel club without a closed stud book.

I would have to think that there is some goal with infusion breeding to get the “breed” closer to a specific standard that they haven’t quite achieved yet.

If you think about it, it makes sense. Very few breeds are just a product of 2 breeds.

[Simkie]

@S1969

If you think about it, it makes sense. Very few breeds are just a product of 2 breeds.

Yep, for sure. But cockers in AUS must be awfully different than cockers in the US if they’re being used as an infusion dog to … do what, exactly, actually? I couldn’t find what the cockers contribute. So often they’re just such nasty dogs here in the US (they’ve fallen out of favor as a family dog for a reason!)

This is also interesting:

“Australian Labradoodles are multigenerational, meaning both parents of the dog were Australian Labradoodles.”

(This is under the “history of the breed” bullet point.)

They break out the different steps of crossing in the grading section, but it is not nearly as straight forward as that.

Don’t get me wrong, this looks to be a huge effort toward responsibly breeding these dogs. We need more of this. But there are still some headscratchers here, and it’s still pretty far from making a “breed” if their studbook is still so very open to dogs of such disparate type–anything with AKC or CKC registration as poodle, cocker or lab can join.

I’ve never looked around for how other nascent (and less popular) breeds run their studbooks when the breed itself is still in the creation stage. It would be interesting to compare!

[Ghazzu]

@Simkie

I couldn’t find what the cockers contribute.

Chronic otitis. It’s a conspiracy by DVMs to ensure a regular income.

[strangewings]

IIRC cane Corso were developed recently and had a very deliberate plan for achieving a specific standard. Maybe explained on the breed org website? I hope i am thinking of the correct breed

Update/edit: i am actually thinking of dogo Argentino

[Kemosabe]

@GoodTimes

I actually have an Aussie Berner cross. She was 1.5yo when I got her, she needed to be rehomed.

I love Aussies and I love Berners. My youngest brother was in love with Berners and my parents bought him a puppy for his birthday, maybe 50 years ago. Great dog but a very short life span. The dog got along famously with my Dad’s border collies!

[Mango20]

@Rackonteur

Most dog owners I have known have no idea that there is such a thing as a standard for their dog’s breed. I remember one young woman who bought a “blond” Cocker Spaniel.
People who own “golden” Labs.
“Doxies” (Dachshunds) with merle/ticked coats (and the owners have no idea what a doxy is – they think it’s a cute name).

Right now I have a lovely neighbor who recently bought a Chihuahua puppy. This woman apparently is familiar with the Chihuahua breed standard.
Her puppy is so (understandably) small that another neighbor think she’s a “teacup” Chihuahua; still another neighbor thinks that her own 15-20-lb. “Chihuahua” is purebred.

Most dog owners I have known are like some of the horse owners I have met in the past couple of years who apparently have no idea how to lead a horse, how to fit a saddle or bit a horse.

Those of you who say dog owners need to be educated, I agree with you. But how do you educate people who don’t even know such an education exists?

While I agree in general that people should be more educated about anything they have/do, I do have a counter-argument to this. Why does it matter if your pet-owning neighbors know if their dogs meet breed standards or not, or even what Doxie is short for? If all they want is a dog as a pet, it shouldn’t matter if the color is wrong or ears too long or even if it’s a total mutt. They’re not breeding or going to dog shows, they just want a furry companion around the house. I spent 9 years thinking my older dog was made of four mystery breeds and one of them was pit bull. Then I got a DNA test, and found five breeds, and no pit bull at all (but 30% boxer). Did it make any difference once I was “educated” about her breeds? No, not really, once I got past the surprise that my 40 lb dog has significant amounts of golden retriever and Great Pyrenees.

[GoodTimes]

@Mango20

@Rackonteur

Most dog owners I have known have no idea that there is such a thing as a standard for their dog’s breed. I remember one young woman who bought a “blond” Cocker Spaniel.
People who own “golden” Labs.
“Doxies” (Dachshunds) with merle/ticked coats (and the owners have no idea what a doxy is – they think it’s a cute name).

Right now I have a lovely neighbor who recently bought a Chihuahua puppy. This woman apparently is familiar with the Chihuahua breed standard.
Her puppy is so (understandably) small that another neighbor think she’s a “teacup” Chihuahua; still another neighbor thinks that her own 15-20-lb. “Chihuahua” is purebred.

Most dog owners I have known are like some of the horse owners I have met in the past couple of years who apparently have no idea how to lead a horse, how to fit a saddle or bit a horse.

Those of you who say dog owners need to be educated, I agree with you. But how do you educate people who don’t even know such an education exists?

While I agree in general that people should be more educated about anything they have/do, I do have a counter-argument to this. Why does it matter if your pet-owning neighbors know if their dogs meet breed standards or not, or even what Doxie is short for? If all they want is a dog as a pet, it shouldn’t matter if the color is wrong or ears too long or even if it’s a total mutt. They’re not breeding or going to dog shows, they just want a furry companion around the house. I spent 9 years thinking my older dog was made of four mystery breeds and one of them was pit bull. Then I got a DNA test, and found five breeds, and no pit bull at all (but 30% boxer). Did it make any difference once I was “educated” about her breeds? No, not really, once I got past the surprise that my 40 lb dog has significant amounts of golden retriever and Great Pyrenees.

It matters when people are getting scammed by unscrupulous “breeders”. It matters when buyers don’t care about health testing. It matters when people by a breed or mix that is totally unsuitable for them.

[Kemosabe]

@beowulf

The farmers we get hay from have been breeding Aussie x BC dogs for generations. I’ve met dozens of them now over the years and have been tempted, even, to get one myself. They make perfect farm dogs for their needs and they’re beautiful, too.

Although I personally think Aussies are perfect farm dogs on their own merit, crossing Aussies and BC’s is more intuitive than crossing Aussies and Poodles.

I have only known one Aussie/BC cross and she was interesting…high drive, but with some of the silliness of the Aussie and less of the seriousness of the BC. She was a high drive clown for sure!

[AltersAreUs]

@Marla_100

Why do people get so upset over this practice?

If these are the FB groups I’ve seen the posts in, it’s specifically groups for finding homes for retired show dogs. So either dogs that the breeders don’t feel are breeding quality OR retired breeding dogs. Going hunting for dogs to create mutts with on a group with those goals is … ballsy, I’ll give them that.

Seriously, though, the “pembroke sheltie” lady had no clue what she was doing. She doesn’t DO anything with the one she has so you can’t argue she’s aiming for a particular function and can’t ID what she wants physically beyond “taller corgie” so, yeah, BYB looking to cash in on the cute.

[S1969]

@Mango20

Why does it matter if your pet-owning neighbors know if their dogs meet breed standards or not, or even what Doxie is short for? If all they want is a dog as a pet, it shouldn’t matter if the color is wrong or ears too long or even if it’s a total mutt. They’re not breeding or going to dog shows, they just want a furry companion around the house.

Again, I don’t care as much if pet owners don’t know or care. I do care if breeders don’t know or care. The job of a good breeder is 1) to know what you’re doing; and 2) to care about the outcome.

If a breeder is randomly crossing breeds because they can market them for money - that is the opposite of “knowing” and “caring” about anything other than profit.

[beowulf]

@Kemosabe

Although I personally think Aussies are perfect farm dogs on their own merit, crossing Aussies and BC’s is more intuitive than crossing Aussies and Poodles.

For sure. I wouldn’t breed “doodle” anything but I do understand why they’re popular. They are so forgiving of handler cluelessness.

You described what I’ve noticed with the Aussie/BCs. They are high drive but playful. I love my BCs but they can be too intense for most people.

[Mosey_2003]

@beowulf

For sure. I wouldn’t breed “doodle” anything but I do understand why they’re popular. They are so forgiving of handler cluelessness.

You know, I understand the appeal of the crosses like the Maltipoo and other small companion dog breeds. That’s a fine mix in my opinion, it’s the mismatch mixes that really bother me and that I think tend to be really unstable. Working dog mixes? That’s totally a thing, and not a bad thing in my opinion, provided it’s the same type of working dogs being mixed. LGD’s for example, you see way more mixes available than purebreds, and they’re good dogs. Often better for certain folks. But things like the Pomsky??? You wanna cross a toy breed with an ALL OUT RUN ALL DAY working dog? Egads no…

[S1969]

@Mosey_2003

You know, I understand the appeal of the crosses like the Maltipoo and other small companion dog breeds.

I don’t understand it.

A Maltese is an ancient breed that was bred to be a gentle lapdog. It is perfect for that job exactly as it is.

Why would anyone mix it with a poodle? What is gained by doing that?

If you like a curly haired dog instead of the straight coated Maltese, why not just get a Miniature Poodle?

To me, it’s again about the name. “Malti-Poo” sounds fun. Otherwise, I don’t see any benefit to this cross.

[Mosey_2003]

I’m not saying I think it’s a great thing, I’m just saying I understand people wanting them.

[LiberalSnowflake]

My hairdresser was all excited about his new puppy when I saw him last month, he’d pre-ordered a Bulldash for around $USD4,500. Now, I’m a dog person, currently have three pedigrees, have had many mutts (free cross breeds, back when such things were free), I’d never heard of a Bulldash, so he showed me a photo of the little Heinz variety. Someone has had the great idea of crossing an English Bulldog (with all of those problems) with a Dachshund (with all of those problems) and giving it a cute name, then charging a fortune for it.