[QUOTE=enjoytheride;4588582]
Robot horses, explains the no turnout.
Also, the drawreins are on a gag.[/QUOTE]
and - so what
one can only assume that one uses draw reins and has problems
as one posted a question about draw reins
matey in the wrong hands and lack of expreince draw can be dangerous
is that what you wanted to hear
as you found that out all by yourself as you have had problems
if so ditch them and dont use them------ simple
I’m not sure why you have to own a multimillion dollar horse in order to know what basic requirements belong to horse-husbandry. I would think a lifetime of breeding, training and 5.5 years of vet school plus 6 years in practice might matter more than a deep pocket lol.
This comment is kind of revealing. If it puts your mind at rest I have owned a few six-figure horses in the past albeit not for very long as I make a living breeding and selling. I am luckily with the few percent of horse people who actually make a profit and I am extremely grateful for being able to do for a living what others pay for to do in their free time. There are a number of horses from my breeding programme which have been and still are competing at the highest level in more than one discipline and I am happy to say their owners did not only have the pockets to acquire these horses but are also good horsepeople so these horses continue to maintain the standard of husbandry they’ve been used to where they were born.
So there is no need to delay this discussion 
BTW Where is the multimillion dollar horse you personally have produced to participate in this debate? As far as I can tell from your site all you did was to sell a 2yo that went on to win in Kentucky and you apparently want your horses to call you ‘mom’? I’m sorry but the drama award is on you there as far as I can see passing flowers
I also have to disagree about the comment Pommederue made about always finding something wrong with
the successful rider’s training methods
.
I find something wrong in putting success over everything else and the course dressage as a sport has taken over the last 10-15 years. You will have a hard time finding me unsubstantiatedly picking on a successful rider for the benefit of taking their achievements apart. I am by far not interested enough in colored fabric and plastic to have such ‘merits’ influence my opinion about someone’s training methods being acceptable or not.
Good and bad horsemanship are everywhere but like I said there was a huge difference in the public reaction to Bill C.'s intern-affair and all the ones that might go on within your neighborhood simply because nobody pays attention to these people beside their own circle. Much the same with high exposure competitor’s but I guess you aren’t really interested in factual arguments as long as you can defent your dream of dressage riding against those who deal with the reality of ruined horses day in day out…
I’m sorry if I sound negative but I do find it difficult to believe some of the posters up here are honestly interested in horses. Many seem much to preoccupied with their personal interests to even care about how things could be changed for the better. Sport has a lot more to do with egos nowadays than with the original sportive virtues such as fairness, self-discipline and team spirit. I feel those need a drastic increase. Now I’m not going to ruin my New Year’s day with any Zickenterror (one of the few words I deem worth exporting from my first language lol)
PS There are a few leading dressage riders in the world who I appreciate a lot on both the technical and the human level. Trouble is they don’t stir half the attention the bad guys do hence there seldom is so much ‘drama’ (thank you Siegi) around them and little talk about what they do. Such is life.Happy New Year
[QUOTE=siegi b.;4589037]
Kareen - you’ve certainly outdone yourself this time… at least as far as drama is concerned.
Let’s have this discussion again once you own a horse that does at least compete successfully at the World Championship level and then we’ll go from there.
It’s easy to be on your high chair when you don’t have nor will ever have a horse in the race, but please, don’t be so close-minded as to forbid actual “doers” their affinity towards safety when it comes to multi-millon dollar horses.[/QUOTE]
Siegi,
FWIW, we did have multi-million dollar world cup level horses at the farm where I grew up and they did get turnout. They did not live outside, but they got at least a few hours each day in addition to being worked 5 to 6 days a week. The rationale for the turnout was that it decreased the likelihood of colic and soft-tissue injuries substantially, and was good for their mental well-being and overall fitness. It is extreme confinement (i.e., no turnolut whatsoever) that would make me a nervous wreck about risk of injury, colic, ulcers, and the like (as it does any time we have an ice storm and cannot turnout).
As someone else pointed out, though, the article does not actually say Totilas does not get turnout. It simply says he does not get turned out alone because he runs. It is not clear whether he gets any turnout with a buddy, though I doubt it.
[QUOTE=YankeeLawyer;4589973]
Siegi,
FWIW, we did have multi-million dollar world cup level horses at the farm where I grew up and they did get turnout. They did not live outside, but they got at least a few hours each day in addition to being worked 5 to 6 days a week. The rationale for the turnout was that it decreased the likelihood of colic and soft-tissue injuries substantially, and was good for their mental well-being and overall fitness. It is extreme confinement (i.e., no turnolut whatsoever) that would make me a nervous wreck about risk of injury, colic, ulcers, and the like (as it does any time we have an ice storm and cannot turnout).
As someone else pointed out, though, the article does not actually say Totilas does not get turnout. It simply says he does not get turned out alone because he runs. It is not clear whether he gets any turnout with a buddy, though I doubt it.[/QUOTE]
I doubt they would take the risk in turning out a 9 year old stallion with another horse. Probably wouldn’t be to safe for the other horse:D
I doubt they would take the risk in turning out a 9 year old stallion with another horse. Probably wouldn’t be to safe for the other horse:D
Why do you say that? Stallions are often turned out with other horses.
BTW Where is the multimillion dollar horse you personally have produced to participate in this debate? As far as I can tell from your site all you did was to sell a 2yo that went on to win in Kentucky and you apparently want your horses to call you ‘mom’?*
klassy
Once and for all, folks. Toto is not hacked, not turned out, Hear it here from Gal. Interview starts at -23:35. Daily routine described here: -19:50.
http://dressageradio.horseradionetwork.com/2009/09/11/dressage-radio-episode-16-edward-gal-interview/
[QUOTE=egontoast;4590026]
Why do you say that? Stallions are often turned out with other horses.[/QUOTE]
Some are but it is the exception rather then the rule.
Kareen EXCELLENT post!!
Thanks Alicen now that we’ve heard if from the horses mouth:) we can stop speculating.
Brilliant and right on. Thank You.
Zickenterror
Love it! :lol:
Happy New Year to you too, Kareen.
Thank you, Kareen.
Excellent, excellent post.
[QUOTE=YankeeLawyer;4589973]
Siegi,
FWIW, we did have multi-million dollar world cup level horses at the farm where I grew up and they did get turnout. They did not live outside, but they got at least a few hours each day in addition to being worked 5 to 6 days a week. The rationale for the turnout was that it decreased the likelihood of colic and soft-tissue injuries substantially, and was good for their mental well-being and overall fitness. It is extreme confinement (i.e., no turnolut whatsoever) that would make me a nervous wreck about risk of injury, colic, ulcers, and the like (as it does any time we have an ice storm and cannot turnout).
As someone else pointed out, though, the article does not actually say Totilas does not get turnout. It simply says he does not get turned out alone because he runs. It is not clear whether he gets any turnout with a buddy, though I doubt it.[/QUOTE]
In agreement with this, Hilltop Farm turns all their stallions out for a few hours a day. The paddocks are about an acre and a half and on a hill. While the horses do not get turned out with other horses, they can see other horses. A facility like this has to be cautious, because they do not own the horses. When I was there looking at a stallion, though, the workers commented that some stallions (including the one I was looking at) made use of the turn out by running around a bit while others put their heads in the grass and did not pick it up until their turnout time was up.
There are several reasons that horses need turn out. One is that they are designed to move around and graze. They are also herd animals and need that companionship.
In reference to moving around, this is the reason most horses with broken legs are euthanized. Lack of ability to move around while they are healing causes laminitis and infections because the blood does not flow. This is what happened to Barbaro.
Horses also need companionship time. They need to feel, touch, communicate with other horses. Scratch each others withers, play halter tag. Being herd animals, they also rest better with other horses. When you look out into a field of horses, you will never see all the horses laying down at once. There is always at least one standing. In stalls where a horse cannot see other horses, they do not have the comfort of knowing someone is guarding them and do not always sleep as well.
All horses are individuals and adjust differently to stall life, but the overall mental and physical health of the horse is better with more turnout.
Here are some articles and commentary on turn out:
http://www.equisearch.com/horses_riding_training/english/dressage/turnout_041105/
http://www.equisearch.com/horses_care/health/behavior/sleepdisorder_121506/
This one is a good illustration of how a horse used to the show environment will fair better than one not used to it. It also gives some insight for people who think their horse is ‘so calm it naps at shows’. Likely, it is just trying to catch up on sleep and is more tired than calm.
http://www.equisearch.com/horses_care/health/behavior/eqsleep1772/
I don’t think Totilas is all that worse for the wear for being in a stall. His bloodlines are of show horses that were adjusted well to stall life and he does get walked. Would he be happier out 24/7 in a herd? Probably, but I have not asked him. He would likely be like my first horse - wanted out in nice weather and IN in bad weather - as in ‘put me in now, I felt a drop of rain!’
Yankeelawyer - You know I am all for turn-out… when I bought a PSG horse 15 years ago and found out that he hadn’t had any turn-out in years I introduced him to being out in a pasture again -with great success.
The point I’m trying to get across is that if I had a multi-million dollar horse that went nuts when turned out and was in grave danger of hurting himself, I would most likely do what they’re doing with Totilas. Remember, Edward doesn’t even own the horse but is responsible for its welfare.
It’s easy for you guys to point fingers saying that you would do it differently, but you have no idea what the situation really is. And I assume that Hans Peter and Edward have enough horse knowledge to do right by their animals. Yes, they lack the DVM title, but they’ve certainly trained and sold many six- and seven-figure horses.
And Kareen, listing all of my accomplishments/titles is not something I have to fall back on in order to lend credence to my statements.
Happy New Year!
[QUOTE=siegi b.;4590248]
And Kareen, listing all of my accomplishments/titles is not something I have to fall back on in order to lend credence to my statements. :)[/QUOTE]
It is completely ridiculous for you to high handedly tell someone else they shouldn’t even be able to participate in a discussion unless they own a multimillion dollar world championship quality horse on the one hand, and then come back and highhandedly explain to them that you ‘don’t have to fall back on listing all of your accomplishments’ in the next.
Entweder oder, Fraeulein.
Meupatdoes - was that the only sentence of my post you read? I certainly seems that way to me…
And I think by now I qualify for Frau…
Happy New Year, Siegi!
How does it go… “The more things change, the more they stay the same.”
Here’s hoping the New Year allows us all some sense of humor, some sense of perspective and some sense of humility!
Because we all need all of those.
not to mention common sense.
<g>
cheers,
[QUOTE=ridgeback;4588360]
I see no sense of humor…
[/QUOTE] I’m not persuaded you’d recognise it if you saw it!
But let’s go back to pontificating what this mysterious post is actually about?
Is it about lack of turnout for competition horses? Or horses in general?
Having been in the business for decades I’m honestly persuaded that there’s no difference whether it’s a competition horse or not.
Read postings here and see how many get hardly any turn out. Hardly any exercise either! Turn out contained to solitary state in piddling pipe corals. Exercise contained to say an hour max a day in an arena.
Now I happen to think that’s no life for a horse. But I’d rather get stuff like appalling unregulated transportation to slaughter, regulation on who does farriery and dentistry, regulation on ownership, regulation on such as giving pharaceuticals, regulation and inspection and good welfare standards on boarding barns and riding centres, starvation and cruelty sorted before I went and got all angry about an expensive dressage stallion not getting out for a good run and a roll with any mates.
Thank you, Thomas! And a very happy New Year!
[QUOTE=Thomas_1;4590372]
I’m not persuaded you’d recognise it if you saw it!
But let’s go back to pontificating what this mysterious post is actually about?
Is it about lack of turnout for competition horses? Or horses in general?
Having been in the business for decades I’m honestly persuaded that there’s no difference whether it’s a competition horse or not.
Read postings here and see how many get hardly any turn out. Hardly any exercise either! Turn out contained to solitary state in piddling pipe corals. Exercise contained to say an hour max a day in an arena.
Now I happen to think that’s no life for a horse. But I’d rather get stuff like appalling unregulated transportation to slaughter, regulation on who does farriery and dentistry, regulation on ownership, regulation on such as giving pharaceuticals, regulation and inspection and good welfare standards on boarding barns and riding centres, starvation and cruelty sorted before I went and got all angry about an expensive dressage stallion not getting out for a good run and a roll with any mates.[/QUOTE]
I think I have been more then clear about turnout for horses in general go back and read and if you still don’t get it I cannot help you. Yes there are many issues to be concerned about and I can actually be concerned about all of them. Oh by the way I think you meant pharmaceutical:lol::lol:
As for the dirty little secret I was using sarcasm.
As for the dirty little secret I was using sarcasm.[/QUOTE]
arh then your dirty little secret is out
sacasm is the lowest form of wit- and constipation is the hardest form of s%$$
therenow everyone knows
