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Spinoff- Controversy of Redwine affect the value of his offspring?

Sport Horse Breeding
#81

[QUOTE=pinhurst52;6112954]
Case SCS121031 - WALDENBROOK FARM, INC. VS. JILL BURNELL DBA

Viewed Date Action Text Disposition Image
09/24/2010 SUBSTITUTION OF ATTORNEY FILED BY JOHN FRENCH, FILED. -
09/22/2010 WARRANT OF ARREST FOR JILL BURNELL WITH BAIL IN THE AMOUNT OF $5,500.00 SIGNED BY JUDGE COMMISSIONER HUGO R. BORJA AND FORWARDED TO PLTF. -
09/20/2010 9:00 AM DEPT. SCS HEARING: APPEARANCE OF JUDGMENT DEBTOR JILL BURNELL - Minutes COMPLETED
08/19/2010 PROOF OF SERVICE OF OEX FILED. JILL BURNELL SERVED BY REGISTERED SERVER ON 08/10/10. COSTS $75.00. -
08/05/2010 (SC) APPLICATION AND ORDER FOR APPEARANCE AND EXAMINATION OF JUDGMENT DEBTOR JILL BURNELL FILED BY WALDENBROOK FARM, INC. -
02/22/2010 9:00 AM DEPT. SCS SMALL CLAIMS HEARING - Minutes COMPLETED
01/19/2010 PLAINTIFF’S CLAIM FILED 12/10/2009 OF WALDENBROOK FARM, INC. SERVED BY REGISTERED PROCESS SERVER AS TO JILL BURNELL ON 12/31/09, COSTS $75.00, HEARING DATE 02/22/09. -
12/10/2009 AMOUNT OF CLAIM: $5,000.00. REASON FOR CLAIM: DFTS CHECK WAS RETURNED AS NSF, DESPITE REPEATED TTEMPTS TO COLLECT FUNDS FOR HORSE RELAT -
12/10/2009 ADDITIONAL CASE INITIATION INFORMATION ENTERED. -
12/10/2009 PLAINTIFF`S CLAIM FILED[/QUOTE]

This is from quite a while ago (i.e., a small claims dispute from 2009, with a judgment from 2010). Are you sure this judgment hasn’t been satisfied?

Edited to add, we’ve now gotten a few PM’s on this sad situation, really too bad for all concerned, especially the horses involved.

#82

correct - one of the trainers not paid. TWF - CA based issue. Then a TX issue - then an OK issue. And on and on it goes.

#83

[QUOTE=Cartier;6113391]
This is from quite a while ago (i.e., a small claims dispute from 2009, with a judgment from 2010). Are you sure this judgment hasn’t been satisfied?[/QUOTE]

It is a Felony in CA to pass a bad check in some amount. John said he was filing against her again on his Facebook page this month 2012 and about 100 horse people came up to say she scammed them too. The arrest warrant posted is alive in Cally and other ones too all over. Public records people.

#84

People you do not want to piss off in the horse world… vets, farriers, feed stores, and trainers. Word travels fast in this small small world. Lol. I guess after so much trouble trying to collect outstanding funds, some people are so good at hiding out or coming up with excuses that the case is either dropped or no longer sought after because it becomes too time consuming and too much trouble so these people end up getting away with it. JMO.

#85

wow… what a mess. we’ve never had any dealings with her of any kind… but we’ve noticed Redwine over the years… and many years ago we saw Romantic Star with a previous owner… so this thread caught my eye… seems like it was just a short time ago people were so happy with GFF… really sad to see how things are turning out.:no:

#86

Update

Wow, I didnt realize this post turned into 5 pages. A lot to swallow.

The reason I was asking is not because of the things I read on the internet. A friend of mine bred to Redwine, had the resulting filly, and didnt get the breeding cert. until after the filly was a yearling, and this was during the time that Redwine wasn’t activated with GOV because of the bounced checks.

I am glad to hear it doesnt sound like people are bothered by the bad publicity as long as the foal is registered.

I am concerned about the arrest warrant. This is news to me.

#87

A quick scan of the address on google maps can/does give the impression of over crowed dry lots with no shelter.

There are several really nice mares listed on her Broodmares page including the TWR’s Iconic Grand Affair :sadsmile::no::no:

Makes one worry about their care and treatment if she can’t keep her @#$% together on the people front.

#88

Not condoning GFF in any way, but, has anyone been to PS’s in Germany? I think he has something like 3500 horses on the property, with hundreds in work & residing in a relatively small area. Farrier barns, hot walkers & tread-mills everywhere…the horses are in immaculate condition, but I think many would be in shock if they saw the place in person. That farm is in the middle of - farms ! My GPS died on the way out, lots of corn fields :wink:

The majority of the big ‘stallion stations’ were exactly the same. The Holsteiner Verband had a handful of small (not 20’x20’) pipe-corrals/roundpens, maybe a paddock (which I didn’t see)…

So, there is a way to have horses, a lot of horses, without turnout. It’s just not easy, and would make raising more than a foal or two a nearly impossible task.

#89

goodmorning - I’ve been to most of the breeding areas in Germany and you seem to leave out the part that the YOUNG HORSES are out in very large fields WITH GRASS. In the winter months many of the farms ship their weanlings, yearlings up north to very large pasture areas. In Hanover - the young colts are turned out in large fields along the river in the center of town. So your representation of “without turnout” is not correct.

Also the large training farms in Germany actually ride the horses outside - hack them all over. They go in walkers as well.

At Ehlmshorn - the Holsteiner State Stud there are larger paddocks for turn out and there is a large track there with open space for the horses to be ridden outside.

Comparing the situation in Germany with some of the overcrowded dry lots in this country is apples and oranges.

#90

Not condoning GFF in any way, but, has anyone been to PS’s in Germany?

Big difference is that Paul is not keeping broodmares and raising foals on his Mühlen property - or at least, very few. And his farm in northern Germany has HUNDREDS upon HUNDREDS of acres…

Other big difference is that Paul does not have bounced checks and defaulted payments all over Germany, or arrest warrants out for him for fraud (at least, I assume he doesn’t).

As for GFF - I think it was on this thread where IHF announced that she had wire transferred funds to them for Redwine’s IHF nomination this year (apparently so she can cash in on the prizes from the futurity). There was such an outcry about it, the OP deleted the announcement. Funny how JB comes up with funds to pay IHF (where there is a potential payback for her), but she can’t pay her other financial obligations.
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339174&highlight=IHF

#91

[QUOTE=ise@ssl;6113799]
In Hanover - the young colts are turned out in large fields along the river in the center of town. So your representation of “without turnout” is not correct. [/QUOTE]

Things change in the winter time.

#92

Sorry, but there is no way in hell you can compare PS’s place with GFF! That is a serious joke! Do you know what dry lots become after a good rain with too many horses in a pen? Yep… a muddy pissy mess! And not to mention no shelter for them to get under. We all saw month old foals out last spring when the storms hit and they where soaked and shivering. Not pretty! I have been bitting my tongue for so long now, but have to voice my opinion. The truth hurts sometimes and some people are in way over thier heads.

#93

Issel - I did mention that this was difficult for ‘raising a foal.’ And that the horses @ PSs were in ‘work’ & immaculately kept. Heck, his first barn is drool-worthy. Perhaps I could have been clearer. The stud farms are where horses in work, stallions, or auction horses are kept; not the foals, less an upcoming auction.

Elmshorn is where the broodmares & youngsters are, if I’m remembering correctly. Yes, there was turnout up(over?) there.

Of course there is ample riding space & the horses are hacked out…?

A little defensive, I guess this thread has touched some nerves, understandably so. I wasn’t trying to compare GFF to PSs, but to generally keeping horses with a lack of land.

#94

Dry lots after the rain are not pretty… especially with no shelter to go under.

#95

[QUOTE=Perfect Pony;6111906]

It’s a real problem here in CA whether people like it or not.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn’t blame the problem on CA - there are plenty of lovely farms here. ANY state has both good and bad breeding farm examples. While we may not have green pastures year 'round, many Cali breeders have 20 to 100+ acres with plenty of room for young horses to move and grow up. If you are in the greater Bay Area, it is less common because land is so expensive, but drive into the Central Valley or Sierra Nevada foothills and you’ll see lovely breeding farms.

Jill’s issues are not CA issues. You can find breeders with similar practices in any state :no:

As for the original question - my gut reaction is NO, as already stated by many, a good horse is a good horse is a good horse. And Redwine has many lovely premium youngsters on the ground. Most riders and trainers look for a quality individual, and are not all that aware of the drama in the background. The only thing that might lower the value is the fact there are so many of them now.

#96

“DOWNYONDER - As for GFF - I think it was on this thread where IHF announced that she had wire transferred funds to them for Redwine’s IHF nomination this year (apparently so she can cash in on the prizes from the futurity). There was such an outcry about it, the OP deleted the announcement. Funny how JB comes up with funds to pay IHF (where there is a potential payback for her), but she can’t pay her other financial obligations.”

Unbelievable, just ridiculous. This makes me not want to ever have involvement in the IHF in any way. What a scam.

If I had a foal/mare or whatever in her care I would be hitching up my trailer pronto, to go get it.

#97

’

Even better is the statement on her website,blaming the IHF for an error. :eek: Heaven forbid she own up to her deadbeat actions. :lol:

“PLEASE NOTE: Redwine is fully nominated to the IHF for 2011 foals. An error was made by IHF as he was fully nominated in 2010 for 2011. If you wish to nominate a 2011 Redwine foal, you must pay the IHF by the end of January 2012.”

Smoke and Mirrors people.

#98

BWHHHAAAAHAHAHA, how ironic. The IHF bent over backwards to accomodate JB and her unpaid fees, and she turns around and throws them up under the bus. Classic!!!

#99

I don’t really have much of an opinion on all of this, but I did visit her website and those are some damn nice horses and babies featured on her pages. It would be really sad to hear that she can’t keep up the business end of her program when she clearly is headed in the right direction with her breeding program.

I recall Jill’s posts on this forum over the years. She’s clearly intelligent and knows her stuff. It’s disappointing to hear about all of this, that’s for sure.

#100

Nice mare YES Decent Stallion Yes. A few nice resulting babies yes.

Terrible customer service … sadly yes.

As to her dry lot husbandry issues. I lived in Southern Cali for 2 years and there were some lovely high end facilities with lots of horses on small tracks of land. The defining difference. SHELTER. It was not as if the over crowded lots had run ins or there were a row of mare motels. It was barren sand pits with out a ounce of shade or shelter coupled with over crowding.

There are plenty of people who do well with less on all accounts. I hope she gets her act together and back on what was prior to all this llama drama a decent operation that showed true promise. If she is strung out and over drawn I’d start with selling a few of those nicer mares off … she can always re build/buy.

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