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Spinoff- Controversy of Redwine affect the value of his offspring?

Sport Horse Breeding
#101

My concern with situations where the best mare mangement is not practiced is the affect it is having on the in utero foals and youngsters. Making sure that mares have adequate access to good pasture, regular grain and clean water directly affects the in utero foals and their development. Horses stressed from lack of shelter, clean water and good grazing are not providing for healthy foals and as far as youngsters it’s a recipe for ulcers.

Ground feeding in mud-lots is not acceptable, feeding straight alfalfa without an other wise balanced diet and grazing is a much higher calcium level than I want for any of my horses - especially broodmares and youngsters.

Additionally when I see crowded feed lots with horses eating off the ground - I wonder how they are fed grain to fit their individual needs. Also I wonder if the horses and youngsters are getting their inoculations and worming as required.

What people have to consider is what a foal or youngster is on the outside may not be a reliable indicator of what’s going on inside. Problems relating to improper feeding during pregnancy and for growing youngsters may show up later and can pose serious issues. i.e. What you see may not be what you get. We welcome anyone to come to our farm who is considering buy a horse or pony we’ve bred to see how they grow up, what they are fed, etc. And I would certainly want to know the same for any breeder I was purchasing a broodmare (specifically in foal) or youngster from for a performance horse.

#102

[QUOTE=koppem10;6110403]
Uhm… woah? Calm down first off- this isnt English class here. It was late and everyone gets the point…

ISE@ssl—Everyone needs to put yourself in her position. Yes, I agree that some of the things that have occured and the stories that I read about her customer service has lacked but no one is in her position but herself. [/ QUOTE]

This is BS! Didn’t read the whole thread, and probably won’t. Nobody needs to put themselves into JB position because most breeders, 98% of them, SO’s or MO’s aren’t this dishonest.

PERIOD! We ALL have problems at times, and we work hard to make it right.

Back OT- Good luck to everyone with RW offspring. I think they’re lovely. I don’t think JB will impact the sales of RW offspring. I DO think how many are available may have an effect. Personally, he’s not my taste. I much prefer her stallion Romantic Star.

As far as registration, I know there are folks out there who don’t care about registration. I want ALL my horses registered. I think it’s a small step in protecting them in a dangerous horse market. Especially for mares. If they’re registered and of quality, they may find a home.

I’ve adopted 4 horse in the last 3 years. Bringing horses into the world thinking, Oh, their talent will show their worth, is irresponsible! It’s enough of a gamble with horses that have proved their worth and have a pedigree to support it!

#103

OK - Chris if we put ourselves in her position…when you have too many horses - then you STOP BREEDING THEM FOR A FEW YEARS! So what was your point?

#104

[QUOTE=ise@ssl;6114606]
OK - Chris if we put ourselves in her position…when you have too many horses - then you STOP BREEDING THEM FOR A FEW YEARS! So what was your point?[/QUOTE]

I’m not putting myself in her position. That IS the point! I have 5 mares. 2 are having babies this year. I’m hoping for replacement fillies for my old, and VERY valuable mares.

ise@ssl- How many breeders do you know who put themselves in JB position? Me? 1!

#105

[QUOTE=koppem10;6110403]
Uhm… woah? Calm down first off- this isnt English class here. It was late and everyone gets the point…

ISE@ssl—Everyone needs to put yourself in her position. Yes, I agree that some of the things that have occured and the stories that I read about her customer service has lacked but no one is in her position but herself.
.[/QUOTE]

This was the quote I was speaking of. I’m simply saying, I am not in her position, since I DON"T own 40 broodmares and they’re not getting bred. THAT was a personal choice!

#106

THIS cannot be underestimated. I suffered the consequences of buying a horse raised in the same area that was the victim of poor nutrition and management practices in-utero and as a foal. The incidence of neurological deficits (among other developmental problems) coming out of some of these farms is ghastly.

IMO (after days and hours of research and speaking with veterinarians and researchers directly) one of the most important things contributing to long term health and soundness is the proper environment in which a mare and foal is raised. There simply are places where horses should be raised, and places where they shouldn’t.

#107

Uh, this. He’s not called a “stallion mogul” for nothing. The man is worth millions and his cash flow is not in any jeopardy. He has more than one property. In fact, he just bailed out Flyinge for (?) several million cash (unsure of exact amount, they needed a considerable amount to keep going, however) so that Sweden’s State Stud could keep operating.

#108

[QUOTE=rodawn;6114673]
Uh, this. He’s not called a “stallion mogul” for nothing. The man is worth millions and his cash flow is not in any jeopardy. He has more than one property. In fact, he just bailed out Flyinge for (?) several million cash (unsure of exact amount, they needed a considerable amount to keep going, however) so that Sweden’s State Stud could keep operating.[/QUOTE]

Right. And I should have added, Paul dutifully pays his stallions’ activation fees for numerous registries, and he is very efficient in sending out breeding certificates and other pertinent paperwork. There is no jerking around of mare owners or buyers of his mares, foals, stallions, riding horses, etc. While he is certainly a hard-nosed businessman, he does not deliberately try to defraud mare owners, buyers, registries, stallion testing stations, etc., etc.

#109

:confused: so, um… where’d my post go?

#110

I just want to address the dry lot thinking here in Ca. Most horses are on dry lots. My horses, 10 of them, are on 150 acres of mountains and pastures. When people come see my horses, they are usually shocked and say, 'Oh my God!" as they watch them slip and slide up and down the mountains.

My point: Horse raising here in California is not perfect. Lot’s of horses are raised and live on dry lots here. And when people see them in their natural environment, they’re usually even more shocked!

#111

[QUOTE=misita;6114810]
I just want to address the dry lot thinking here in Ca. Most horses are on dry lots. My horses, 10 of them, are on 150 acres of mountains and pastures. When people come see my horses, they are usually shocked and say, 'Oh my God!" as they watch them slip and slide up and down the mountains.

My point: Horse raising here in California is not perfect. Lot’s of horses are raised and live on dry lots here. And when people see them in their natural environment, they’re usually even more shocked![/QUOTE]

Wow Misita - I don’t think folks would think 150 acres of anything for 10 horses “horse crowding” :lol: I had 10 acres in Placerville and thought one Welsh stallion (“Sir William”) and two goats were crowded :lol:

But we aren’t talking about 150 acres…in the case under discussion.

#112

I know 3Dogs. It just seems people are always complaining about the land horses are raised on here in CA. For JB is too little. For me, it’s too rugged and rough. I prefer my way of raising horses. But others here in CA. would prefer Jills. They think they’re safer on the dry lots. Not taking sides. It’s just a fact of life here that most horses are raised on dry lots. When they see mine running up and down the hills, even the little ones, they gasp.

#113

Yes well we all have things to deal with on a daily basis. I have 50 horses to care for and a large farm to run, for the most-part singlehandedly, on a daily basis. Many of the horses who live on my farm are other peoples horses. I have mares to foal-out and take to AI centres for rebreeding, we have a hay farm and I help with the 1000 round bales I need each year and bring in the thousands and thousands of small squares each year. I plow all my zillions of driveways around my farm in the winter, I harrow all my fields in the summer, I erect and install all the vinyl fencing and drive the Bobcat to dig all the post holes on my farm … the list goes on … but I STILL manage to deal with all the phone calls and emails that I receive daily in a timely and polite manner … and more importantly what I say I will do, I WILL do, and the moment I receive any bills they are paid immediately.

So please, before we bring out the violins, remember that we all choose to do what we do and if we’re not capable, in whatever way, to do those things then the best idea would surely be to give it up and go do something that is within our capabilities?

#114

I thoroughly enjoy how anyone can eventhink of putting the name Paul Schockemohle (sp?) and GFF in the same sentence! :lol:

#115

In my personal dealings with Stallion Owner, she has been one of the most professional, organized, and kind people I have dealt with. When you go to look at a horse at her farm, you don’t pull up to a tenth generation ramshackle backyard operation with mutts running underfoot to go out to a back forty pasture full of wormy, unkept rejects. You arrive at a professional establishment to see a well groomed, healthy animal. That alone puts her miles ahead of many other breeders, simple professionalism. I’m not saying that what she did was not very wrong, but to say these things about someone as bright and influential as Jill Burnell, who has brought up some of the most fantastic horses in the industry and spearheads the effort to make American bred horses take center stage, is crazy. Let us not forget that there are always two sides to every story. I’d like to see any of you do better. There are breeders who manage to ge in some quality stock, but cannot market them like JB, many on this very board, and before the “lack of money” excuses comes flying at me, lack of money does not mean you cannot be neat and professional.

In no way do I think a Redwine baby will be difficult to market.

#116

[QUOTE=Angelico;6116498]
In my personal dealings with Stallion Owner, she has been one of the most professional, organized, and kind people I have dealt with. When you go to look at a horse at her farm, you don’t pull up to a tenth generation ramshackle backyard operation with mutts running underfoot to go out to a back forty pasture full of wormy, unkept rejects. You arrive at a professional establishment to see a well groomed, healthy animal. That alone puts her miles ahead of many other breeders, simple professionalism. I’m not saying that what she did was not very wrong, but to say these things about someone as bright and influential as Jill Burnell, who has brought up some of the most fantastic horses in the industry and spearheads the effort to make American bred horses take center stage, is crazy. Let us not forget that there are always two sides to every story. I’d like to see any of you do better. There are breeders who manage to ge in some quality stock, but cannot market them like JB, many on this very board, and before the “lack of money” excuses comes flying at me, lack of money does not mean you cannot be neat and professional.

In no way do I think a Redwine baby will be difficult to market.[/QUOTE]

I don’t care how bright and influential you are, you pay your bills and you don’t screw your customers. I’m sorry to be so blunt, but I’ve had it up to here with our society excusing bad behavior.

#117

[QUOTE=Hillside H Ranch;6116738]
I don’t care how bright and influential you are, you pay your bills and you don’t screw your customers. I’m sorry to be so blunt, but I’ve had it up to hear with our society excusing bad behavior.[/QUOTE]

Dang! where’s the ‘Like’ button???

Great post.

#118

“When you go to look at a horse at her farm, you don’t pull up to a tenth generation ramshackle backyard operation with mutts running underfoot to go out to a back forty pasture full of wormy, unkept rejects. You arrive at a professional establishment to see a well groomed, healthy animal.”

Well hells bells! I must be looking across at the wrong place this whole time! And there is no back forty thats for sure! That would actually solve the whole overcrowding problem. Lol! Maybe Hillside, you were across the street where she kept some of her horses. You know, the place with the gravel roads, and grassy pasture?

#119

Gubbyz - - Hillside did not say that. Angelico was talking about the location . . .

#120

This.:yes:

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