Spinoff- Thoroughbred Stallions; a list

And for what its worth, I think Arrogate or offspring from him might be worthy of a look for sport horses when the time comes.

He’s by Unbridled’s Song who has been well revered as a good source of athletic ability on this board before. He was by Unbridled (Fappiano) and out of a mare by Caro. His dam is by Distorted Humor (Forty Niner x Danzig) and out of a Deputy Minister (Vice Regent) x Meadowlake x In Reality mare.

I’d like to see him crossed on Seattle Slew mares to add soundness of feet and leg and overall athletic ability for sport. If you watch Arrogate gallop he has tremendous reach from the shoulder and hes not a half bad mover at the trot.

The one thing I don’t like about him is his height.

KITTENS JOY offspring off the track, some have done very well in dressage if I remember correctly. They are great movers and he really stamps his offspring.

His dam is by a Roberto son out of a dam by Lenjoluer who was by buckpasser and out of fronfreleuche

He looks like a conformation hunter in photo: beautiful shoulder and topline, good neck set with pretty head. He was exclipse champion on Turf and stands at Ramsey Farm

He is extremely expensive to breed to at 100,000 LFG but if you can find some retraining prospect; they are worth a look!

Check out the photos of this lovely stallion here

http://www.ramseyfarm.com/kittens-joy/

Calumet Farm also stands one son of Kittens Joy out of a PULPIT mare for $5000 LFG. Pulpit and AP Indy lines are known for siring soundness and good feet.

He has a tremendous pedigree for sport: His first four dams are by Pulpit, Dynaformer, Northern Dancer, and

His name is REAL SOLUTION.

http://www.calumetfarm.com/stallions/real-solution/

Colebrook farm stands a son of Artie Shiller who is also a son of El Prado. He is out of a Fusaichi Pegasus mare. looks to be more of the eventing type. His fee is 3000

http://www.colebrookfarms.com/We%20Miss%20Artie.html

.In europe, it’s done the opposite way than suggested by those on this thread. TB studs are used to refine WB mares, not just any TB mare used to breed to a WB stud. You get a performance WB mare, and then refine her foals with good TB studs. I’ve seen too many breeders is the USA get any TB mares, free or cheap or free lease, and spend money on a WB stud. If you are going to use a TB mare, get one with great conformation and/or a performance record in the ring.

I suggest you check out european horses, maybe some already imported into the USA. They have about 50% of both european TB and American TB blood, done the way that europeans breed to create good jumping horses.

Interesting post from another thread.

FYI, generally speaking, the TBs you find in the UK are bred quite differently from American TBs. If you look at the TB lines used to refine in the major WB registries, the vast majority were from the UK.

Coconut Grove, Salute the Truth, AFR (is it possible that he actually hasn’t been mentioned yet??), Sea Accounts, and their peers are unfortunately no longer breeding. IMO, this was the last Great Generation of American TB Sporthorse stallions. I think there is some hope that one of Fred’s sons may stand one day. I hope so. AFR was one of the finest stallions to stand in any registry. He did something far too few stallions of any breed do: passed his good traits along.

Breeding is a crapshoot when breeding the best to the best. That’s why I hate threads that include the recommendation of stallions who have and likely never will prove themselves in sport. It encourages poor breeding choices and takes away from the special stallions who have worked so hard to gain their reputations.

SENOR SWINGER

Song of El Prado out of a Kris S mare. Winner on turf and dirt. His 2015 fee was 2500.

http://www.diamondbfarmpa.com/senor_swinger.html

LORD ADMIRAL: Another son of El Prado. He has an interesting pedigree:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/lord+admiral
Check out the movement on one of his foals in training in 2016 at the 2 minute mark. WOW WOW WOW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glHsDq2wnGg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNF-q4BFilY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kObxaMf3Njs

How come these horses can be found a lot in superior show jumping horses: http://dashtafamehorses.com/history/

AFR is mentioned but hes not available anymore :frowning:

Elles; Phylaris, Teddy and Man O War lines are very popular in the pedigrees of TB’s for sport

[QUOTE=snaffle1987;9022843]
Elles; Phylaris, Teddy and Man O War lines are very popular in the pedigrees of TB’s for sport[/QUOTE]

Yes but here these horses are mentioned in relation with QH racers.

You have picked out some lovely horses. My bet is that they will accept non TB’s, but they might insist on live cover. Since all TB’s have to be live cover, the stallion manager might not want to get the horse confused, come mating time.

I would definitely only consider horses who “stand over lots of ground” You definitely want a lot of space between the front and hind legs. Some of your picks are lovely, but they are too chunky for my taste.

A COTH’er owns one of Barbaro’s 1/2 brother and she loved him when she first got him. She may srill love him, but I have not seen a post on FB about him for a long time.

I would tend to stay away from any unsuccessful Tapits. Both sire and dam of the offspring will have fabulous race horse blood. Not all Tapits are SW, but the ones which are standing so cheap that they are in your price range may be uncoordinated or have a physical defect. BE WARY.

If a horse has Royal Charger in its pedigree, do not look any further. RUN do not walk to bred to that horse. I have never known a horse with Royal Charger in its pedigree who has not been a fantastic sport horse.

Look for Denny Emerson’s old stallions – although they may have passed on by now. Formula One and Deputed Testamony (yes, the name is misspelled) are two who have successfully sired sport horses.

Good Luck. Let us know what horse you choose.

Sorry for the misspellings… I forgot you cannot edit

Denny sold off his remaining inventory on his old stallions who have since passed. I believe he still has Formula One but he is an irish sport horse. A friend of mine actually purchase some of his semen inventory and is currently sitting on it with no mares to breed to it. :slight_smile:

PPS: Look at "National Hunt Stallions in England. These are the TB stallions which are used to sire steeplechasers. They mostly have the body type you are looking for, although some might be longer in the back than would be ideal in siring sporthorses.

Save the pictures of the ones you like and compare them to the conformation of stallions on your list. this will give you an idea of the bet type for you. (Also look at pictures of the stallions’ sire’s conformation — that is the way to see if the horse you are looking at is ‘bred to type’.

As long as we are talking, we all know that Mr. P had and passed on crooked legs. So any horse with Mr. P once close or twice anywhere in the pedigree (which is most American TBs) also is a risk to pass on crooked legs. But I don’t see that stopping racing people from suggesting Mr. P descendants for sport horse stallions.

To be absolutely fair, John O’Gaunt had horrible short and upright pasterns that crippled him. But he was a very successful stud, and he passed on his pasterns to Wild Risk three generations later and Wild Risk was one of the greatest lines for sport in TBs EVER. Wild Risk was a jumps as well as flat racer, and his pasterns didn’t cripple him.

So either crooked legs or short, straight pasterns (or other defects like overly straight hind legs or other known weaknesses in a stallion and his get) are completely disqualifying to a breeder or their possibility is a risk that has been considered and accepted knowingly.

Yes, Mr Prospector and Native Dancer are thought to be leading factors to unsoundness issues in TB’s. With that being said; both transmitted excellent sport pedigree. Lines like Damascus, AP Indy, Seattle Slew and Pulpit can be excellent influences for excellent feet and legs. They are from the Bold Ruler line.

There is a very interesting article on the Paulick Report where Denny Emerson covers the lines he likes; including the bold ruler lines for soundness and the Mr P and Northern Dancer lines for athletic ability.

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/follow-the-line-popular-thoroughbred-sires-in-sport-horses/

TWO PUNCH is covered here as an excellent source for movement and there is coverage and video of Nuno Santos’s beautiful KITTENS JOY gelding

I also found an article in my research about the 2012 ROod & RIddle Thoroughbred of the year. He was a gelding with limited race career turned
tremendous show hunter with an amazing jump. His name was Sea Walker. See him here:
http://www.roodandriddle.com/news/thoroughbredhunterseawalkerisdeclaredroodriddlethoroughbredsporthorseoftheyear.html

Sired by Marlin. Marlin was a son of Sword Dance by Nijinski out of a Damascus mare. Sword Dance’s dam was by Secretariat. Marlin is now in Turkey
http://www.pedigreequery.com/marlin

Sea Walker’s dam was by Cure the Blues (By Stop the Music out of a Dr Fager mare) and out of a mare by Private Account

SCIPION also had some very nice offspring shown on the line over the past several years who were very successful. He is a son of AP INDY (Seattle Slew x Secretariat) and out of a mare by Strawberry Road x Hail to Reason

I posted him earlier in this thread. he is standing at Murmer Farm in MD and is definitely worth a look by the hunter breeders!!

RUNNINTOTHEALTER has sired several hunter breeding winners at Devon. He’s standing in PA> He is by Conquistador Cielo (Mr Prospector x Bold COmmander) and out of mare by a NIjinski son out of a Prince John mare

Damascus is far from Bold Ruler line–just to be clear. And what is odd is that during his sire career, Bold Ruler was considered a source of race horses with bad legs. IMO, the dam was VERY important in Bold Ruler get’s soundness. And since there is only one really active Bold Ruler line left (except for Demaloot Demashoot who also traces through Boldnesian and is noted for soundness) in the Seattle Slew/AP Indy bunch, it’s hard to say that BR is a reliable source for soundness.

Yes, he is still intact. He’s easier to manage than many geldings and very professional away from home (he LOVES going to horse shows!). The plan is to move up to Training level later this year, and once he proves himself in competition (Prelim?) we’ll think about marketing him to outside mares. I’m not too worried about him mentally juggling breeding and training, so much as I feel it is important to have a solid competition record before promoting him to other mare owners. .

I intend to breed my UL TB broodmare to him this season, and perhaps buy/lease a few more mares for him when I can, to get a few foals on the ground. He's a very classy horse, as his pedigree would suggest, and such a deep family isn't often available for sport horse breeding. I've been studying what other Bernardini sons are producing at the sales, and so far they seem to be consistently nice (not surprising, as the AP Indy sireline is pretty dominant, in good ways).I never intended to have a mature stallion in my barn, but I love having him around. "Kind" is the best word to describe him-- he's a very kind, thoughtful horse with good intentions, along with his power and athletic ability.