I suppose the same is true of axe murders.
11 Likes
Don’t you mean “axe murders”? Let’s be honest are we surprised by this post?
1 Like
Do we really want to compete in a sport where consensual axe murdering between consenting adults is enough to get a lifetime suspension?
12 Likes
[QUOTE=Saskatoonian;n10244489]
If you need to put consensual in quotes, you have a problem. A truly consensual affair between adult student and adult trainer is not a violation of SS. The problem is true consent where an imbalance of power exists. That’s defined. This isn’t that hard.
Contrary to what ladyj79 may think (whoever she is) I am no troll. I will continue to attempt to provide balanced and thoughtful input to these forums wherever I can. I put consensual in quotes simply because the power imbalance between coach and athlete renders such consent invalid. I am sorry if that wasn’t clear.
To that end, the following is a one page summary of SafeSport policies that was given to me by my friend Nancy Hogsgead Makar some time ago. Nancy has worked hard through her advocacy group Champion Women to see that SafeSport provides effective support to NGBs in the Olympic movement where sexual abuse of athletes is concerned. While I completely support the goals of SafeSport, it remains to be seen how effective their enforcement polcies will be in practice.
U.S. Center for SafeSport’s Policies at a Glance
1. Sexual contact or “romantic” relationships of any type between an athlete and a person who has a position of power over the athlete are prohibited.
a. A “person with a position of power” includes coaches, administrators, judges, referees,
employers, staff, medical personnel, and even volunteers. b. U.S. Center for SafeSport’s flat prohibition on sexual contact covers children, who are
under the age of 18. Sexual contact with a child is also prohibited under criminal law; it is a felony and consent is no defense. c. This flat prohibition also includes an athlete that is 18 years old+ and/ or an athlete that
“consents” to sexual or romantic contact. d. When there is more of a peer relationship, such as teammates, and no imbalance of power,
sexual contact with minors is still prohibited when their ages are separated by more than three years. e. Peer sexual abuse is also a violation of the SafeSport code. f. All competitive levels are covered by this prohibition; not just elite athletes.
2. The club-sport and Olympic family, broadly speaking, are required to report sexual abuse, suspected abuse, and may not retaliate against those who report sexual abuse. You should not conduct your own investigation or make a determination of credibility before reporting. You do not need to get the consent of the victim prior to reporting. Reports should be made to the authorities and can be made to SafeSport by phone: 720-524-5640 or at this online link: https://safesport.org/response- resolution/report.
3. SafeSport defines sexual contact broadly; it is any intentional body contact, clothed or unclothed, of a person’s intimate body part(s) with another person, up to and including sexual intercourse.
4. SafeSport also prohibits non-contact behaviors of a sexual nature, including exploitation, including taking and/or disseminating pictures, video or audio recordings, voyeurism, or exhibitionism. Non- contact sexual behaviors can also include creating, sharing, or viewing of pornography.
5. It does not matter when the abuse happened; SafeSport will investigate even if the legal statutes of limitation have expired for any criminal and civil penalties. SafeSport itself imposes no statute of limitations.
6. The elements of an ethical coach-athlete relationship are:
a. An ethical coach will not text, email or call an athlete separately from teammates. b. An ethical coach may have one-on-one conversations, but will not separate an athlete, so
that they remain within ear-shot or viewing distance of others. c. An ethical coach will not fat-shame or humiliate an athlete. d. An ethical coach will not hit or kick an athlete; and will not throw objects like sporting
equipment at another person. e. An ethical coach will not give an athlete a gift. f. An ethical coach will not require an athlete to practice or play on a serious injury.
7. Victims, parents, and peers can: Tell the police, their doctor, their mental health practitioner, their school teacher, principal, or Title IX Coordinator. They can also call SafeSport and report the abuse: 720-524-5640.
8. If you suspect child sexual abuse, don’t try to interview a child; get them to an expert. Treat any suspected victim with respect and care. Contact the authorities and call SafeSport and report the abuse: 720-524-5640.
3 Likes
We currently live in an era of neo-puritanism rampant. Like its predecessor, this too shall pass. There is a time for every season under Heaven.’
I guess it’s time to not rape people.
44 Likes
Nancy Hogshead Makar has done outstanding work for ensuring fair play and safe sport for all. She’s been advocating for these causes for a very long time - long before it was fashionable to speak out.
11 Likes
Can you elaborate on that sentence? I hope I am misunderstanding and that it doesn’t convey your actual thoughts…
9 Likes
All of the recent stuff is real and valid but I can just say as a former working student of SB’s that all of this downward spiral saddens me. He was kind to me and I learned a lot from him, admittedly it was back in 1996-97. The people in his barn when I was there have gone on to great things in the sport and it just sucks for all. He made terrible choices, he had made terrible choices with humans before but I really do count his influence as a part of my knowledge now.
Emily
10 Likes
Sexual assault falls under the code though, right? What about beating horses in the face with a whip? Hypothetically speaking of course…
If having a consenual affair with a student is a Safesport issue, then why were the threads about a certain UL rider here recently deleted?
9 Likes
I too think its sad, he used to be idolized in Ontario when I was a young girl competing.
4 Likes
Yes so why don’t you come out and post the reason? Why are you being mysterious and picking him out of the others who are also on the list? (Notice they’re all men, hmm.) Why not say what he was accused of – 7 YEARS AGO BTW – instead of tossing out dark hints to be ware of him lest he show up at a 3-day with a dangerous weapon or something?
Good grief. “Innocent until proven guilty” is not just a legal term in this country – it is the law.
2 Likes
I did post the reason and got chastised for it so I deleted it, and also so the thread would stay open.
What does it all being men, have to do with anything, at all?? Not my fault men have been behaving badly.
I’m not being mysterious what so ever. I chose to post about him for a multitude of reasons. One, I am aware of the situation. Two, he was at one time local to me, and three, this suspension is recent and thus the need for a thread.
I’m not commenting on anything 7 YEARS AGO BTW so maybe instead of yelling at me through your caps lock,you take a breath and read the actual thread.
6 Likes
That would be a question for COTH moderators but I know that allegations of potentially criminal behavior are routinely removed.
I have been falsely accused of acting sexually inappropriately twice by female students in my career. I would have welcomed the opportunity to have an organization like SafeSport investigate and clear my name. Had I ever tried to actually have sex with a student I would have been tarred and feathered. I am not at all certain that the same applies to the most popular trainers active today.
There are several on going investigations, including Stuart’s, that involve well known professionals and officials in the horse industry that will give us a better understanding of SafeSport and the enforcement of its policies. I, for one, will be watching and learning along with the rest of the horse world exactly how tolerant we are going to be of bad behavior that does not rise to the level of criminality. What is also fascinating is how this whole movement fits into today’s political climate, and how the relative positions of the individual determines the standard of behavior to which they are held accountable.
6 Likes
“Ethical Coach” guidelines 6a and 6b (above) seem like they would be difficult to apply in any individual sport, including riding.
2 Likes
I am wondering if it more applies to the under 18? Is there anywhere that speaks of it? I know it is broad-in-scope but am I missing where it is more nuanced regarding minors?
That said- I just had this conversation this week that I can not stand when kids are texting me. A 12 year old texting me about a horse or lessons just doesn’t sit right for me in my situation. I would rather deal with the parents of the children, even if by text.
2 Likes
Emily, I can appreciate how you must feel. Not horse related but I had an acquaintance (no, not sexual at all) that I greatly looked up to and admired for the work they accomplished and how respected they appeared to be in their organization.
Over time, the behavior of said individual, IMO, degenerated and he ended up doing many things that made me loose all respect for him. Tainted my feelings about his accomplishments that lives to this day. He’s no longer in the ‘position of power’ he once was, he’s been to court, he’s been ‘outed’ in the media.
Maybe nothing happened directly to you but it still can have a significant impact {{}}
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. IMO, truer words were never spoken…
I agree. I thought that guideline most applicable when dealing with team sports. Obviously, we primarily use one on one conversations with students when dealing with individual sports.
From the forum rules:
We are now expanding our policies to allow posters to share their own first-hand experiences involving overt criminal allegations, such as animal abuse or neglect, theft, etc., but only if they publicly provide their full first and last name along with the post. We still will not allow anonymous postings alleging criminal activity.
So, a user may now make a specific claim against a named individual or company, but it must be a FIRST-HAND account, and they have to IDENTIFY THEMSELVES.
In the case of the thread in question, a full name was signed, so I assume the issue is that it wasn’t first-hand. No one directly involved in that situation has, as far as I know, an active posting account on COTH - someone was posting what they had been told by an affected party.
There have been other high-profile allegations of criminal behaviour posted and allowed to stand lately with a full name attached, but none (as far as I can remember) that relate directly to Safe Sport type topics. Feel free to correct me on that one as needed.
3 Likes
I wonder just how many murders are committed with axes each year. Why is my brain now wondering this?
ETA: Damn. The FBI lumps axes in with knives and other cutting instruments.
1 Like
