I’ve been told repeatedly that my OTTB could jump in the 1.50’s quite competitively, he just had the bad luck to find a home with an eventer.
[QUOTE=FairWeather;7587748]
I’ve been told repeatedly that my OTTB could jump in the 1.50’s quite competitively, he just had the bad luck to find a home with an eventer.[/QUOTE]
You need to post a picture of your boy…he truly is exceptional.
[QUOTE=FairWeather;7587748]
I’ve been told repeatedly that my OTTB could jump in the 1.50’s quite competitively, he just had the bad luck to find a home with an eventer.[/QUOTE]
Being told and doing are two different things.
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;7587783]
Being told and doing are two different things.[/QUOTE]
That horse is doing…he just isn’t competing because that isn’t his owner’s desire. There is no doubt when you watch that horse jump…he is a bit of a freak of nature.
[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;7587782]
You need to post a picture of your boy…he truly is exceptional.[/QUOTE]
Seriously, I’ve been watching this thread since the beginning waiting for pictures of this horse. heh.
So we are talking about aesthetic jumping?
Last I checked, GP jumping was judged on keeping the fences up and making the fastest time. No mention of looking pretty - that would be Hunter division.
I will certainly give you that selling young horses for potential jumpers, the buyers will pick on aesthetics. So very important if you are a breeder to have a youngster that jumps and the audience goes ooh! Ah!.
And there is an interesting thing about Thoroughbreds: they are very tightly bred genetics-wise, and that might lead one to believe that a good TB jumper would have good jumping progeny.
You know, like the Bonne Nuit line…
Or the 2 GP Jumpers the TB mare Kluwall produced, one TB, one Trak…
What part of the jump is it that they kill? Not the part that goes over the fences clean, apparently.
Well, I guess we’ll see soon enough about the “doing” 
But he has absolutely nothing to prove to me, or anybody else, and even if he rolls up and wins a GP, it isn’t like Bayhawk will be anything other than dismissive and rude anyhow, but THANK you for the kind words about my freaky deaky Trickles! I love his weird ass.
Photo–this is 1.6 meters.
10367864576_0c120abe35_b.jpg
now, Authentic is not TB, but his sire is Selle Francais and his dutch registered dam is by a TB, and his 2nd dam is also by a TB.
So how far ‘away’ from that pesky jump killing TB do you have to breed to get a team Gold Medal in 2004 and a 2nd at WEG in Aachen 2006; another team Gold in Beijing, and an individual bronze?
How about Sapphire’s dam: by a Selle Francais stallion (dam by a TB and sire line to Orange Peel TB) and out of a Hanoverian mare whose sire was TB; 3rd dam also by a TB.
Of course her Sire was Darco, whose sire line is to TB, and dam’s sire line is to TB and there is no more tb in that pedigree -what a relief!
I can see why one might say, no more TB!!
Jump killers, all.
[QUOTE=D_BaldStockings;7588251]
now, Authentic is not TB, but his sire is Selle Francais and his dutch registered dam is by a TB, and his 2nd dam is also by a TB.
So how far ‘away’ from that pesky jump killing TB do you have to breed to get a team Gold Medal in 2004 and a 2nd at WEG in Aachen 2006; another team Gold in Beijing, and an individual bronze?[/QUOTE]
You just made the point about generationally breeding the warmblood. The TB stallion made the mother…then right back to the SF warmblood stallion.
Just because a TB stallion appears in the motherline doesn’t give you the right to call it a TB .
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;7588275]
You just made the point about generationally breeding the warmblood. The TB stallion made the mother…then right back to the SF warmblood stallion.
Just because a TB stallion appears in the motherline doesn’t give you the right to call it a TB .[/QUOTE]
The dam is 75% TB; the sire’s pedigree is here with the red being TB. His TB percentage is given as over 63% with some unknowns.
http://www.webpedigrees.com/pedigree.php?nid=166469 Oddly enough, Guidam’s dam is kin to Red Rum, 3 time winner of the Grand National and twice 2nd, through Magic Red, Red Rum’s damsire.
DS stands for Demi-Sang (half Blood) the predecessor of the SF, and a breed that was similar to the AA in that it didn’t mean an F1 TB cross.
So Authentic was well over half TB by percentage, which is probably why he and Beezie Madden got on so well.
A TB stallion? no…
back crossing twice to TB? Sounds like someone wanted more TB.
I guess you missed where I noted these horses are NOT TB?
If TB kills the jump as you assert, and one is trying to breed jumpers, then why would these horses have so MUCH TB ancestry and jump at the top of the game?
-It is not as if there are not other fine horses that jump, WB and TB, both.
A breeder is free to make their own judgments based on what they have observed and researched. Obviously your choices would be more marketable than mine and a breeder must make money or quit.
There are not thousands of young WB ‘dressage retirees’ coming out of the rings for relatively low prices in competition with purpose-bred Jumper WB, as there are with retiring young TB racehorses in competition with purpose-bred TB Jumpers.
And there is the no AI problem of chasing after TB stallions to get your TB mare bred.
Not to mention that they are not eligible for ranking in the WBFSH as their parent registry is not a member…
Sweeping, simplistic statements like TB’s are ‘jump killers’ really don’t go over so well in the broader world of actual pedigree study of Jumpers, however.
Carry on.
A German forum Mut zum Blut = courage to blood = the courage to use TB’s, Arabian or Anglo Arabians in breeding sport horses:
http://www.horse-gate-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?52-Mut-zum-Blut-Edle-Tropfen&
A lot of Germans seem interested in the use of blood but many are a bit afraid of doing so.
A topic about TB’s with the ability to jump:
http://www.horse-gate-forum.com/showthread.php?35837-Springendes-Vollblut&highlight=springendes+vollblut
[QUOTE=FairWeather;7588244]
Well, I guess we’ll see soon enough about the “doing” But he has absolutely nothing to prove to me, or anybody else, and even if he rolls up and wins a GP, it isn’t like Bayhawk will be anything other than dismissive and rude anyhow, but THANK you for the kind words about my freaky deaky Trickles! I love his weird ass.
Photo–this is 1.6 meters.
10367864576_0c120abe35_b.jpg[/QUOTE]
If you ever get tired of him, I have a stall waiting next to my mare! 
[QUOTE=supershorty628;7588561]
If you ever get tired of him, I have a stall waiting next to my mare! ;)[/QUOTE]
I’ll fight you for him, supershorty!!
FairWeather, that is a damn fine animal, regardless of breed. I am a huge TB fan and yours is truly exceptional.
I am open to sharing, just know that I am small but mighty! :lol:
Just wanted to share two sitations from Jan Greve, who is probably one of the breeders who used the most, and with the best results, thoroughbred in KWPN breeding. I think it resume well how I perceive the rôle of the TB in breeding. They are very important, but in the long terme. Generally, they often kill the jump in the first generation, but bring important qualities that carry on in the nexte générations.
when you breed to the Thoroughbreds, the main goal is to produce mares. You don’t use a Thoroughbred to produce good sport horses mainly it is to produce good half blood mares.
“A good sport horse always carries thoroughblood in his vains. Without, it doesn’t work! The thoroughbred works best through the mother, just look at Voltaire or our younger stallions like Quidaro and Carambole. They produce very modern foals because they have thoroughbred in their pedigree. The use of a thoroughbred stallion does require a long term vision. There are breeders who want to breed a foal to sell it, but if you want to build a good breeding line.”
And as I mentioned previously, I think the very good TB are getting harder to find. Almost all Selle Français references above point to a very few stallions, like Hand in Glove, Laudanum or Orange Peel. The youngest of these stallions probably stoped breeding 20 years ago. Since then there have been important stallions like Heraldik and Julio Mariner, but who had not a major impact in the showjumping in their first générations. They, however, produced wonderfull mares that produce great horses when crossed with powerfull stallions.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;7588298]
The dam is 75% TB; the sire’s pedigree is here with the red being TB. His TB percentage is given as over 63% with some unknowns.
http://www.webpedigrees.com/pedigree.php?nid=166469 Oddly enough, Guidam’s dam is kin to Red Rum, 3 time winner of the Grand National and twice 2nd, through Magic Red, Red Rum’s damsire.
DS stands for Demi-Sang (half Blood) the predecessor of the SF, and a breed that was similar to the AA in that it didn’t mean an F1 TB cross.
So Authentic was well over half TB by percentage, which is probably why he and Beezie Madden got on so well.[/QUOTE]
Don’t care about the TB blood %…Authentic is a Dutch Warmbood coming from a Dutch Stamm not a TB stamm. The father is SF warmblood coming from a French Stamm , not a TB stamm.
You people see two Tb’s in the pedigree and you start trembling with excitement like a dog in front of a Filet Mignon.
And now you make the ridiculous statement assuming that you have half a clue as to why Beezie got on so well with Authentic. You can’t assume just because a horse has 50% TB blood that this is the reason Beezie got along with her horse. You would need to ask her why she got along with her horse.
Step away from the TB crack pipe people.
To me a closed stud book (and there are very few out there) is gong to have a much more difficult or impossible time keeping up with the specialty required of jumpers in this day.
Special Memories was my mothers stallion (out of Kluwall TB) and he jumped 1.6m world cup classes . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydCY98nQAkE-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5nE2-Jsf28-
He was quick, and had a great front end–but I wuuld have loved to have seen him crossed on an excellent holsteiner mare…and maybe will someday (if I keep saving my money.)
