Dressage groundwork and other types of groundwork are very different, so that was the reason for my suggestion.
I’m really not trying to be discouraging. I’m just trying to find a way to help you both keep your mare engaged, keep you enjoying things, and also help you on your way as a partnership with correct work.
[QUOTE=zaparaquah;7488513]
I understand that and that’s why I’m learning Dressage, which I will then use with my mare once I’ve learned the basics on a steadier, sounder horse who can tolerate my clumsiness. I’m just looking for fun things to do on the ground while I get there as my mare is easily bored. All I’m asking is wether I could safely do a really clumsy not at all correct 1/2-2 step passage imitation as a training experiment. I’m not expecting her to do it “correctly” or under saddle as I realize that is a high level movement that neither my horse or I are ready to do.[/QUOTE]
If she is easily bored, you would get more benefit out of:
than teaching her an improper movement.
[QUOTE=GoForAGallop;7488627]
If she is easily bored, you would get more benefit out of:
than teaching her an improper movement.[/QUOTE]
I’m already doing all of that most every day. But what really gets her excited is learning new and unusual “games” and solving puzzles. So that’s why I’m asking about this. If everyone is really that disturbed by my teaching her to lift up diagonal pairs of legs, then I’ll find other things to teach her.
[QUOTE=zaparaquah;7488666]
If everyone is really that disturbed by my teaching her to lift up diagonal pairs of legs, then I’ll find other things to teach her.[/QUOTE]
I have to wonder why you bothered to ask. Good luck to you.
Okay, well lifting up diagonal sets up legs is very different from “passage”, it is just lifting up diagonal sets of legs. Whole different thing.
I think, though, that if you do that it may interfere with a correct passage when you do actually want to teach that to her…and it may interfere with you learning. One of the biggest mistakes I made a very long time ago was to teach a gelding that I had some flying changes that were “wrong”. It was really really hard to correct the mistake once I’d made it, because the aids given were very similar to the “correct” aids, and it wasn’t fair to punish him for something that I’d previously taught him.
Just trying to help you sidestep a mistake I once made!
[QUOTE=OneGrayPony;7488791]
I think, though, that if you do that it may interfere with a correct passage when you do actually want to teach that to her…and it may interfere with you learning. One of the biggest mistakes I made a very long time ago was to teach a gelding that I had some flying changes that were “wrong”. It was really really hard to correct the mistake once I’d made it, because the aids given were very similar to the “correct” aids, and it wasn’t fair to punish him for something that I’d previously taught him.
Just trying to help you sidestep a mistake I once made![/QUOTE]
Thank you, that’s a good point! However I don’t think this mare will have enough rideable years to ever actually learn a good passage, so I’m not concerned about that.
OP, I think the reaction you are getting such a strong reaction is because Piaffe and Passage are more or less the most advanced movements a dressage horse will ever be taught. It’s something that can take a lifetime to achieve.
It is not something that you would want to take on if you were not an experienced dressage trainer as you could quite seriously hurt your horse.
As you are new to dressage, you wouldn’t have a way of knowing that.
I think it’s great that you want to do some new things with your mare to keep her interested as you rehab her. Try looking up some cavaletti exercises - that would get you going.
There are basically 2 things we ask of the horse in dressage: carry (collect) or thrust (extend). The extreme of collection is piaffe or pirouettes, and the extreme of thrust is extensions.
Passage is the ultimate in asking the horse to carry AND thrust in order to sustain the movement. It takes an immense amount of strength and body control (by the horse, not the rider) to keep it up. A horse with hock issues (reading between the lines of some other threads by the OP) is not going to be comfortable at all if asked to passage.
I am just about to take my first real dressage lesson on a school horse. So no, I don’t really know what it takes to train a real piaffe or passage.
How you could even dream of teaching your horse P/P after typing this sentence yourself is beyond me.
GP dressage is the athletic equivalent of GP show jumping.
If she’s bored, why not just free jump her over a 5 foot fence? It would require no less athleticism than passage.
Seriously, and I never thought I’d type these words, why not just play Parelli games with her?
When I was young and working at a barn, I was exercising their 4th level horse. I came back into the barn and proudly announced that I had just ridden “extended trot”…(I had ridden a mere lengthening…lol). They looked at me like I had 12 heads…I was so embarrassed, but I learned a big lesson that day. 
[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;7490090]
How you could even dream of teaching your horse P/P after typing this sentence yourself is beyond me.
GP dressage is the athletic equivalent of GP show jumping.
If she’s bored, why not just free jump her over a 5 foot fence? It would require no less athleticism than passage.
Seriously, and I never thought I’d type these words, why not just play Parelli games with her?[/QUOTE]
I’m just considering different options. No need to be snippy. And I’m sorry but some of the parelli games are actually very useful for horse and handler. I’m not saying I agree with the whole method, but I don’t quite understand your bitter tone.
[QUOTE=zaparaquah;7488666]
I’m already doing all of that most every day. But what really gets her excited is learning new and unusual “games” and solving puzzles. So that’s why I’m asking about this. If everyone is really that disturbed by my teaching her to lift up diagonal pairs of legs, then I’ll find other things to teach her.[/QUOTE]
Not at all - have fun with your horse :yes:
I’d do it in-hand but not u/s until she is much stronger.
I provided those links as I thought she has no dressage foundation - & you as well
It was meant to be helpful not hurtful or nasty in any way.
Bitter? That’s a good one :lol: . More like exasperated that a rank beginner is arguing against heeding the very good advice of many experienced dressage riders.
[QUOTE=zaparaquah;7490352]
I’m just considering different options. No need to be snippy. And I’m sorry but some of the parelli games are actually very useful for horse and handler. I’m not saying I agree with the whole method, but I don’t quite understand your bitter tone.[/QUOTE]
Bitter? That’s a good one. :lol: More like exasperated that a rank beginner is arguing against heeding the very good advice of many experienced dressage riders.
Troll alert
You know, I don’t think so. OP reminds me of a 13-year-old who doesn’t believe that people with more experience could possibly know more than she does. Unless you are referring to me, in which case you got me! :lol:
[QUOTE=SillyHorse;7490377]
You know, I don’t think so. OP reminds me of a 13-year-old who doesn’t believe that people with more experience could possibly know more than she does. Unless you are referring to me, in which case you got me! :lol:[/QUOTE]
Yes, from other posts around the forums in the last week or so, she comes across as more very enthusiastic but too young to know what she doesn’t know. She’s asked about building an XC course, how hunters are judged, and thought reining was an Olympic sport.
But hey, she’s enthusiastic, and she’s asking, so eventually some of it will sink in. I remember how much I thought I knew when I was 14, and how many years it was until I realized that it wasn’t half as much as I thought it was :lol:
OP, I don’t necessarily think teaching your horse a few tricks (maybe “counting” or stepping up onto a box, or rolling a big exercise ball, all of which I’ve seen done) is a bad thing, but if she’s rideable now, I would not hesitate to do a lesson on her. I’ve had some very, very good lessons where we didn’t do much more than walk. A good trainer can kick your butt six ways til Sunday without seeming to ask for much at all!
[QUOTE=SillyHorse;7490373]
Bitter? That’s a good one. :lol: More like exasperated that a rank beginner is arguing against heeding the very good advice of many experienced dressage riders.[/QUOTE]
Really? I’m not being unreasonable and I am heeding your advice. I’m NOT going to attempt a passage with my horse. I was merely commenting on the bitterness with which Dressagelvr discredited the 7-games . I’m not trying to argue out of stubbornness. I’m just trying to create a dialogue to get a thorough understanding of the perspectives others present. I fail to see how that’s immature…
[QUOTE=DoubleTwistedWire;7490399]
Yes, from other posts around the forums in the last week or so, she comes across as more very enthusiastic but too young to know what she doesn’t know. She’s asked about building an XC course, how hunters are judged, and thought reining was an Olympic sport.
But hey, she’s enthusiastic, and she’s asking, so eventually some of it will sink in. I remember how much I thought I knew when I was 14, and how many years it was until I realized that it wasn’t half as much as I thought it was :lol:
OP, I don’t necessarily think teaching your horse a few tricks (maybe “counting” or stepping up onto a box, or rolling a big exercise ball, all of which I’ve seen done) is a bad thing, but if she’s rideable now, I would not hesitate to do a lesson on her. I’ve had some very, very good lessons where we didn’t do much more than walk. A good trainer can kick your butt six ways til Sunday without seeming to ask for much at all![/QUOTE]
Yes I am young and I have a LOT to learn. Which is why this forum appeals to me. Yes I did think Reining was an Olympic sport, but I was wrong and I learned that. What wrong with wanting to know how hunter is judged or how to design a cross country course? I’ve never competed in or seen either event. So I’m trying to learn.
I’m enthusiastic. I have big dreams. I ask questions. I’m not afraid to speak my mind and sound stupid. Why does that make me foolish, immature or not worth conversing with?
And yes, I do believe that lessons are helpful! Which is why I’m taking them weekly now on a school horse. I will eventually consider getting lessons on my horse.
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