I was not about to run to the nearest tack store and snatch myself up a cwd saddle that’s for sure xD last time i sat in one i thought “egh why do people like these things.” more important these brands don’t fit my Snookiekins so no point in forcing HER, a horse, to endure what us women must to be “beautiful.”
One of my first jobs in HS was macy’s, and in FINE watches (bragging point there!). never understood the lengths some will go to buy these Tag Heuer’s or Longines watches. Here I am driving a 13 year old Bug that’s got a window that doesn’t work and cracked leather seats! If that doesn’t prove how unmaterialistic I am I don’t know what could.
When I was 15-16 I had a bit of her attitude. My identity became “A Circuit Junior”. We didn’t have a ton of money but there was enough that I had a nice horse and got to show about 5-6 rated shows around the southeast every year.
Once I went off to college and my parents stopped paying for me to play with horses I had the rude awakening that I was not, in fact, hot shit.
I’m now a nearly 31 year old amateur re-rider. I’m the “cool” adult in the barn according to the teenager because I drink, I curse, and kick ass in the show ring on my $5000 aged jumper with used and clearance tack. I can only hope that the kids look up to me and learn the things I wished I knew when I was that age. I don’t care about name brands, what shows I go to, or what BNT I ride with. I care about my horse, bettering myself as a rider, and most of all whether or not I’m having fun.
^ THIS IS WHO I WANT TO BE AND THIS IS WHO I WANT TO EMULATE FOR MY YOUNG FRIEND <3 (caps for emphasis!) hopefully when she is a few years older she can think about me and realize i was not the poor schmuck she made me out to seem…
Ask your trainer.
And then stop wasting your energy giving any credence to your teen friend’s Truths.
Or by looking for backup ammunition to refute her here.
Kid is picking up on half truths and muddling other things.
Obviously a good 3 foot 6 jumper (assume that’s what she means) that can get ribbons on a full course in competitive company is valuable. Especially if it’s kid safe.
Around here the cutoff between under and over 3 feet is distinct and expensive.
From what I’ve read on COTH the equitation courses value a flat jump that doesn’t unsettle the rider and the hunters like to exaggerate the bascule, and the jumpers just get 'er done (others please correct if I’ve muddled this).
My guess is either one of her barn frenemies is horse shopping or her own trainer is trying to get her to scale up.
Anyhow I think you need to stop listening to this kid totally because she is just blabbing out half over heard or misunderstood things (3 foot 6 jumpers are rare … at the $5000 price point, in this barn, at schooling shows etc. Not universally rare like a Zedonk is rare).
You can’t go on fact checking every dumb thing she’s ever said. If you want perspective browse all the COTH threads on buying and training hunters and jumpers and equitation horses.
I mean I have nothing to do with hunters, its not even that big a thing here :), and yet I have an estimation of the place of a 3 foot 6 jumper in the scheme of things (its not schooling show but it’s not Spruce Meadows Nations Cup Grand Prix either).
There may be some good resources out there that let you get up to speed on the parameters of higher level competition so you have more of a knowledge base and aren’t so unseated by her pronouncements.
That said, it is true that the high end hunters are effectively priced out of most people’s reach in terms of horse cost, training costs, and showing costs. That’s a common thread on COTH. The price is probably connected to the fact that most of these horses are managed entirely by trainers especially junior horses.
What is Teeny Teen actually doing? Is she spending all this money to just do two foot 6 at A shows? (a waste of money IMHO) or is she competing and placing at 3 foot 6 herself? If the latter, that’s an accomplishment even if she has wrap around trainer support.
To get her conversation more grounded, you could ask her specific questions about how high she is showing, how high she is jumping in lessons, if she jumps a course at that height, what horses she rides. If you could get the conversation back to the technicalities of it, she might stop trying to get your amazed attention with dumb pronouncements.
when someone comes to me and says “this is how the world works, do not argue with me,” I consider that a warning that something in the individual’s understanding has gone terrible, horribly wrong.
She’s not interested in changing her mind. She’s not interested in conversing! So that means she vehemently, strongly, passionately believes the things she does. Therefore there’s got to be a source she’s getting this information from. Meaning that there’s other people out there perpetuating, believing, and spreading these things. And that is why I posted this in the first place. Where is the source of the nile
Again it is not so much that she is saying it as what she is saying, where it is coming from, and why it is believed? This is so outside my own experience I cannot even begin to place what the cause is.
@Scribbler, edit to add she only jumps 2’6. she claims her horse will never be a “meter horse.” my understanding of horses and jumping is any horse can jump 3’.
Why I am frustrated and what I guess I am not conveying is 3’6 to me is above-average but not unattainable. Now a 4’ horse is a gold-encased critter indeed, but up to that point i believe just about any athletic horse is capable. Where is the mystery and price tag?
i believe i am missing a huge chunk of this sport and if i am i want to know what it is, because i don’t believe a 3’6 horse is that special and I don’t believe they should cost what they cost. But they do. So where am I going wrong?
I mean it’s no secret that upper level hunters is super expensive or that teen girls are brand snobs ,( check out the current COTH thread on hunter myths, quite amusing).
These little girls are up against an expensive system run by and large for juniors with rich parents. They are taught to be in a panic about what they can accomplish before they age out. All of them are being encouraged to ride too much horse, certainly horses they’d get killed on if they kept them in the back yard and hacked down the sidewalk after school. They are under more nefarious pressure to be skinny and have a good look on a horse. Trainers may be psychotically manipulative. Etc.
Edited to add: I tried really hard to just type “psychologically manipulative” but spell check just wants to up the drama!
Obviously the girls are going to fall into all sorts of silly errors as between themselves they try to figure out the rules of the new game, that possibly promises more than it delivers and runs on anxiety, competition, and self doubt.
It’s also true that you yourself are not ever going to have a top junior career, you’ve aged out, and to be honest probably not going to get to the top A shows because of budget and time constraints.
So why does it matter what brands the kidlets are worshipping this year?
Local A’s are attainable financially and time-wise but not with the grooms and the other extras. I have no shame in showing out of a trailer. As I prepare to do this I am using her experience as a gage for what I should expect and I am already completely turned off. I know her logic is severely skewed but she does have the actual boots-on-the-ground experience I don’t have. I’ve never been to these major shows, just watched them on TV so what do I know?
Ok. Your explanation is what I was seeking. What she values is what I don’t value. I think that is where I am losing her? She desperately wants a horse she can sit on and cruise around. Win without any effort put in. To me, that’s a waste and that’s playing pretend. You didn’t earn it. But then again since Mother Goose and Father Rooster shoved me out of my nest to basically plummet to the ground (financially and otherwise), cut off all horse funds and give me a small stipend for food now and again so I don’t starve, I have complete humility and a real understanding of how hard it is for an “average ammie” to do these things. I am so grateful for this and I never, ever want to have those selfish, narcissistic beliefs she carries. I point out all the “off breeds” who win and she shrugs and says “they were lucky. Doesn’t mean TWH’s/OTTB’s/Morgans/Paints/Etc should be allowed to show.” I just… :eek: in front of someone who has an “off breed” herself!
I appreciate those who have let me air this out. :sadsmile:
The difference between the two of you is that she is a teen and you are an adult.
If you haven’t attended these shows, go in person. Watch rounds and warmups, note things you like and things that seem horrible (like excess gear in warmup).
You will get a much better sense of how people present in person.
If possible, go with a trainer friend, even offer to play fetch n carry for her riders one day. Just get as much on the ground exposure before you attend with a horse. And get an adult perspective.
Someone who can help you see the performances that win, not someone who is on about the cost of the helmets.
You will also see hordes of juniors and will see how little power they have compared to their trainers and how anxious and unsure many of them really are.
As far as showing out of a trailer. Some places allow this, some don’t.
Just got off the phone with the trainer to discuss this with her. She explained a bit about how the sport is set up and why I might be hearing these things. I’m still fairly concerned but @Scribbler is right i’m going to have to wait for this individual to age out of these thoughts. Thanks for your kind advice and comfort, scribbler I never considered this could be a junior thing. I am not familiar at all with that division as I’m not a junior!
I honestly don’t think there’s anything you can do to change her mind. Just let her live her life and make her own mistakes. The real world will catch up with her and she’ll learn.
Yeah there really aren’t that many in my age group… so I have to hang out with the older folks which is fine with me! You have such good insights scribbler, thank you.
I don’t agree. I’m guessing Mommy and Daddy are planning to foot the bill for 4 years at a very elite private college and that this young princess has a trust fund already set up for her and, for all I know, Daddy has a business or golf partner who has a son of eligible age with a trust fund set up for him. Just a guess on my part.
I know middle-aged and older people who have no idea that some of us can’t afford the things they take for granted.
you are not far off at all. Mom is stay at home, dad is a manager at a hospital. Mom is/was a rider and on top of the full training she wants to lease a horse to ride with her daughter. However she told daughter no to a “higher level” horse. She said she has to be content with her GRP. So there are “some” boundaries there - it isn’t a situation of excessively spoiled daughter.
Part of me feels for the little teen. She is at a very very high quality facility surrounded by incredibly expensive horses and shows on her pony (pony aint no schmuck either. it’s a nice pony but came at a 4 figure price tag). She’s once and a while hinted she wishes she could own one of those big horses. On one end i get what she must be going through, on the other hand things are not always as they seem especially in the horse world. there are multiple ways to do things and diversity is good. I hope when she comes back from her show she’s opened her eyes a bit. or… maybe closed them tighter. We will see.
We are friends because she occasionally comes to school my horse. teen is a very, very good rider who I feel is being stifled by this glamorous show world and reliance on trainers. She’s got some natural talent, but believe she needs all of this to be a winner. I give her a chance to come out of her rigorous training program to ride my mare and school her over fences once and a while which she seems to deeply enjoy, although she picks apart Pookiekins… :no:
I can’t be the only one who is completely creeped out at the OP’s obsession with this poor kid, and now it seems she’s creeping the poor kid’s parents too. For crying out loud OP, stop stalking this teen, give her and her family a break, and get yourself a therapist. None of this is normal adult behavior.
I have zero interest in stalking her. What I do have an interest in is stopping her damaging and perverse thinking. And if I can’t do that I can at least understand where it comes from so that when I hear the same lies she spouts from someone else I will know what the source is.
What I am obsessed with is this incredibly elitist mentality that is beyond my comprehension and i have zero idea where someone even gets these thoughts? Maybe I am naive. But i’ve been around and seen enough to know there is zero, absolutely zero, credibility to any of her claims. And if there is I want to know.
By listening to this teenage fool. Go live YOUR life - not her “truths.” To quote Gertrude Stein “There is no there there.”
She’s talking out her teenage ass. Quit spending so time on this. Because WHO CARES what she says. Plus you’ve answered yourself “But i’ve been around and seen enough to know there is zero, absolutely zero, credibility to any of her claims.” Now - go ride your horse.
I do feel like social media, instagram in particular has exacerbated this mentality in juniors. Between the 10000000 boutique tack shops, custom everything, and fancy fancy horses being thrown on your feed 24/7, it seems like a lot of teens are more interested in what the newest fashion trends are than being focused on horsemanship. The west coast kids seemed a little more detached from reality and interested in what the horse is wearing over ththe horse itself than east coast kids mostly because the west coast kids I dealt with were all at full care facilities. East coast still has a stronger “old school” horsemanship mentality (well, parts of the east coast) than I experienced on the west coast.
(there are many exceptions, I admit. Just a general observation)
however, you do not have to tolerate that behavior or engage with it. Like others have said, let this kid go, if she grows into a decent human being you can always pick up the friendship again.
I never considered this could be a junior thing. I am not familiar at all with that division as I’m not a junior!