Last I knew she is a child. Frankly it looks to me as though somebody maybe didn’t do due diligence, or there was a mix up in communication between vet/trainer/buyer. I am unaware if indeed the evidence shows that the pony truly had rotated prior to purchase.( Maybe that has been confirmed, i just don’t know)
There really isn’t much of a reason for trainers at that level to want to sell their client a pony they know cannot perform and go to the show every week. As you see from those bills, they make money by going to the show every week. Having a pony that can’t keep up with the pace is a financial liability. Those people aren’t desperate by a long shot. There are plenty of other nice ponies in the world, and plenty of people that want to sell them with plenty of margin for the trainer to make money. No trainer wants their client to have a pony that alledgedly needs its feet blocked. That is just simply a PITA. Like I said, those guys don’t need money badly enough to go througfh that hassle, even if they had no moral compass ( which in my knowledge of them over the years, they do) So Like I said earlier, it sounds like there was a communication breakdown somewhere during the purchase and vetting process.
Heritage has more clients than anyone else. They produce results consistently. People pay for that. Why charge less when at those prices you have a barn with twice as many clients showing as most other top operations? We can all complain about not being able to afford their program, but they’re full. Clearly they are priced at a reasonable level for their market.
[QUOTE=danceronice;7018323]
Like I said, I spend about $7-8000/YEAR on lessons (probably throw in $1500 or so for comps as I don’t dance a lot of rounds) and among my teachers and coaches I include a Blackpool finalist and World-certified judges (ie the “BNTs” of the dance world.).[/QUOTE]
One of the big differences here is that dancing does not include the expenses of a living creature that has to be taken care of, transported and trained along with the rider.
I could never even think of affording these prices, but on the other hand I do not have the talent to ride at that level either. Just because I can not do it does not mean it is wrong that someone else charges what the market will pay for this level of care and training.
I fail to see why board horses should be expected to cover the costs of a trainer’s investment horses in the cost of services. That seems to me to be very close to embezzlement or some other form of financial misdoing.
I find it most humerous that it was Heritage who put those invoices out for all to see. Not sure how it helps or hurts them but certainly adds to the conversation. If you have the money and want to spend it then go for it but don’t get indignant later when it does not go your way. The lawsuit is silly and a waste of money. The medications for ponies is just frightening. I like what someone said, if your willing to name the drug in one line why not breakdown what defines show meds?
[QUOTE=danceronice;7018323]
And it CAN be done more cheaply, so why spend the money when 99% of the time, you get absolutely nothing to show for it other than those proverbial fifty-cent ribbons (and I note that when it’s the “po’ folks” complaining about getting slaughtered by the professional ammies, the response is ‘it’s JUST a ribbon, it’s not that important.’) [/QUOTE]
Why do people spend money on vacations? There is an experience to be enjoyed.
At my trainer friend’s barn the goal of many of the kids is to compete at Pony Finals, and all who have set that goal have achieved it. The goal wasn’t to get a ribbon, they wanted to have the experience.
[QUOTE=chunky munky;7018128]
Not that hard to block a heel, but that wouldn’t fix a truly foundered/rotated pony. You would probably have to do a ring block, which usually causes a fair bit of swelling. Would be tough to model or do the conformation class. There are things that are not lidocaine or similar that will block. Not sure if most are still untestable, but anything with the word “caine” in it is certainly testable. I don’t think that those guys would risk all that over one pony.[/QUOTE]
An abaxial seasamoid block ought to take care of pain secondary to laminitis.
As a trainer, an attorney will advise you to never name and itemize drugs. I am not endorsing this practice, just saying that i had been advised that as well as many others in the business that i know.
[QUOTE=RockinHorse;7018173]
I am curious as to the logic behind this. Does anyone know?[/QUOTE]
Perhaps because administration of these substances by a trainer who does not possess a license to practice veterinary medicine violates a number of statutes?
[QUOTE=vxf111;7018106]
At the show? This pony was showing AA shows and in between the hack and over fences, he went back from some Tildren? Seems unlikely.[/QUOTE]
It was in response to what drugs could come up to the amount. But heck, I’m still baffled as to why the client is paying for box fans!!
[QUOTE=jonesy;7018409]
I find it most humerous that it was Heritage who put those invoices out for all to see. Not sure how it helps or hurts them but certainly adds to the conversation. If you have the money and want to spend it then go for it but don’t get indignant later when it does not go your way. The lawsuit is silly and a waste of money. The medications for ponies is just frightening. I like what someone said, if your willing to name the drug in one line why not breakdown what defines show meds?[/QUOTE]
That’s what I was thinking as well. If they are trying to prove that they didn’t block this pony, the high dollar mysterious “HS medication” lines in addition to the other medications which are broken down line by line really does not help their case.
[QUOTE=Hunter/JumperMom;7018435]
It was in response to what drugs could come up to the amount. But heck, I’m still baffled as to why the client is paying for box fans!![/QUOTE]
Why wouldn’t the client be paying for them?
My trainer has never paid for my box fan. The only difference is I go to the store and buy my own. I also clean my own stall and feed my own horse because I always showed on a budget.
[QUOTE=danceronice;7018274]
What the HECK kind or ROI are they getting for that kind of money? I could campaign a mid-level racehorse for less.[/QUOTE]
But you can’t have a VBNT race trainer that’s a household name select a 2 year old that has broken its maiden in its second start at a major track and send it on the 3 year old Classic trail, Saratoga and the Breeders Cup for that or less. That’s the equivalent of what Heritage does. Not a midlevel anything.
I was never anything but mid level but was expected to buy or be billed for a new box fan every year when the string went out on the road. That’s not unreasonable. Those things get dust saturated and take a beating, it’s sensible to replace them.
You bet I bought my own at Costco. I chose a barn that let me handle my own purchasing of such things. So can anybody else if they want to avoid a mark up.
But those barns may not be on the name drop A list at the golf club or Junior League luncheon. Some people want the notoriety of those barns, it’s important to them. They got the money? I don’t care. But don’t plead poor to me over the costs
I imagine Heritage put that list out to show that client paid and paid and paid and bought more Ponies over a long period of time without objection.
Would that get the toe too, where it seems rotators seem to have significant pain? And would an abaxial sesamoid block not cause significant visual swelling of the ankle? I would think that would be tough to hide. Plus you would need to do it every day the thing went to the ring…unlikely.
By the way unless there is something i never heard of, any substance i know of to block a horse isn’t expensive.
[QUOTE=trubandloki;7018437]
Why wouldn’t the client be paying for them?
My trainer has never paid for my box fan. The only difference is I go to the store and buy my own. I also clean my own stall and feed my own horse because I always showed on a budget.[/QUOTE]
Well that’s the difference, this is “Full Service”. Our horse is “full service” in a “full service” barn. You don’t provide fans, buckets, stall guards, saddle pads, etc. barn provides all of that
I’m not sure why all the outrage on the invoices. No one kept a gun on these folks to force them to ride there.
[QUOTE=Hunter/JumperMom;7018461]
Well that’s the difference, this is “Full Service”. Our horse is “full service” in a “full service” barn. You don’t provide fans, buckets, stall guards, saddle pads, etc. barn provides all of that[/QUOTE]
And should be charging you for them if they need replacing. Either by item or in a lump per month divided supply fee. No one wants to eat that cost.
[QUOTE=Hunter/JumperMom;7018461]
Well that’s the difference, this is “Full Service”. Our horse is “full service” in a “full service” barn. You don’t provide fans, buckets, stall guards, saddle pads, etc. barn provides all of that[/QUOTE]
But you still pay for them, you just may not be billed directly.
[QUOTE=jonesy;7018409]
I find it most humerous that it was Heritage who put those invoices out for all to see. Not sure how it helps or hurts them but certainly adds to the conversation. If you have the money and want to spend it then go for it but don’t get indignant later when it does not go your way. The lawsuit is silly and a waste of money. The medications for ponies is just frightening. I like what someone said, if your willing to name the drug in one line why not breakdown what defines show meds?[/QUOTE]
Are we talking about the same lawsuit?
The one about a PPE not doing the job for a client isn’t a silly cause IMO.
[QUOTE=Highflyer;7018477]
But you still pay for them, you just may not be billed directly.[/QUOTE]
Yes, part of the supply fee spread out. But there was a line item for it, as well as 125 a month for supplies. Your paying no matter what at these big barns
[QUOTE=Mayaty02;7018239]
I would not classify the rider as a “beginning rider”… granted I don’t know her, don’t know how good she is etc… but she is showing at the upper echelons of the small pony hunter division at the biggest shows in the country, not short stirrup at some local show, therefore to most of us in the show world would probably not consider that being a “beginner”. That said, in the courts, I’m sure they wanted to emphasize the age of the rider and the safety concerns that would along with that. How best to do that than to call her a beginning rider.[/QUOTE]
Except (and I suppose I could be dead wrong about this) that kid, if she started at Heritage or the like, would have never had the opportunity to cut her teeth in that true “beginner” environment. I see plenty of kids at Pony Finals that would be labeled “beginner” in my program. Like, half the Smalls.
What’s sad is this is the only way this kid knows horses. For anyone that’s really into the animal and the sport, you know that’s just a little wrong. Wealthy people don’t get (or stay, perhaps) wealthy by throwing money around willy-nilly. Those bills are a lot for any animal to live up to, and a lot of pressure for one little pony to carry.
