That's a twist

[Angela_Freda]

@YankeeDuchess

The DA may have brought it up in the bail hearing, as part of the argument that he should be denied bail.

THERE
WAS
NO
“BAIL”
HEARING.

[HappyTalk]

This is what I take away from this whole situation. How stupid and meaningless to almost lose one’s life over … dressage.

[Angela_Freda]

@IdahoRider

Here is what I think. And it is worth exactly two cents. LK was a client of MB, a business relationship that spanned 18-24 months, roughly?

At some point during that business relationship, LK and her boyfriend end up training and and staying with MB in New Jersey for a period of time. All goes well.

At some point LK and/or her boyfriend mention that boyfriend can do remodeling/repair work on a residence on the property and offer to do the work in exchange for training/lessons. The business relationship had been problem free to that point, nothing major, so they all agree. A win-win.

LK and boyfriend move in. LK’s horses arrive in some number between 2-5. The boyfriend starts the remodel. No worries. LK makes social media comments that all is well, MB goes about his business.

Then there are questions about the remodel work. It isn’t up to the standard that MB had thought it would be. In fact, to prove his point her gets the fire marshal out to inspect the place and the residence that the boyfriend had been working on is deemed uninhabitable for whatever reason…perhaps, oh, wiring for instance.

More likely the town requires permits and inspections at particular points in construction and remodeling, and at that point the not-up-to-snuff work was noted by inspector to not-a-construction type horse trainer.

MB decides that the arrangement isn’t working and he insists that LK start paying full price for training and lessons because the agreed on remodel is a no go. LK and boyfriend dig in and say that the remodel was a shit show because (insert whatever floats your boat here: the materials MB paid for were substandard, the boyfriend was a loser who couldn’t hit a nail straight…whatever).

LK and boyfriend decide to charge MB what they consider fair market value for all his work on the remodel. $50,000. MB laughs and insists that they either sign a training/lesson contract that spells out what he believes they owe him or they leave. They laugh at him and say they aren’t going anywhere until he pays them the $50,000. Each side digs in.

I am sure that they played Who Can Make A More Ridiculous 911 Call (my own opinion is that LK wins that game with the “I heard a shady person talking about killing me when I accidentally overheard the conversation at 3 a.m., but I didn’t think it was important enough to say anything until the next day”). LK and boyfriend continue to use the facilities because the deal was that they get free or reduced training/lessons for the remodel and MB and his folks feel like they are being made fools of.

Hazarding a guess here, but I do believe that LK can be difficult to deal with and based on her behavior here, a little on the drama llama side. So I am sure that buttons were being pushed. You know…SIGN THESE PAPERS OR LEAVE!!! NOT UNTIL YOU GIVE US OUR $50,000!!! YOU CAN’T BE IN THE BARN AFTER 2:15 IN THE AFTERNOON!!! SIGN THE PAPERS! WOULDN’T YOU LIKE TO KNOW WHO MB IS TRYING TO SLEEP WITH!!! GIVE US OUR $50,000!!!

SafeSport gets called and the children are mentioned. CPS gets involved because of that mention. Did LK mean for that to happen? Probably not. She was throwing out stuff left and right. Perhaps the SS person she spoke with explained that the conflict was a civil one and not something they would get involved with. They do stuff that is more geared towards protecting vulnerable people, like kids. Kids? Well, she says, there are kids staying in the house and they are being exposed to violence and alcoholism and who knows what else. Magic word. And so starts the train of events that leads MB to the front porch that afternoon.

I don’t believe in coincidence. I believe that the two actions, CPS coming out and MB showing up with a gun, are connected. It is too much of a coincidence for these two events to not be connected.

Perhaps he took the gun to wave around and threaten them with. Perhaps he took it because she had recently said she would turn her aggressive dog on him if her turned up at their place and he wanted to have something to protect himself from the dog. Or maybe he really had been plotting to kill them both. We might never know.

I am sorry that someone ended up so seriously wounded. That must have been a horrible experience. That is really the only fact that we know for sure at this point. Someone was shot. And I think we can all agree that MB is the one who shot LK. And we can agree that regardless of who did what to whom before that shooting took place is not sufficient reason for anyone to be shot.

I now go back to lurker mode on this thread.
Sheilah

Just one small modification to this likely set of events…

[NotGrandPrixYet]

That’s ridiculous that YD named me as one of the two most vehemently anti-LK posters. LOL! I point out inconsistencies is all. And there are quite a few.

And YD definitely has injected her own steep slant in her posts. And injects speculation, then in subsequent posts starts repeating it as if it were fact (case in point, signing documents at gunpoint).

Just so everyone knows, all along this “journey” I have not cared very much for MB, either. He shot someone. To me, he sounds manipulative and controlling on the 911 calls. But he’s not on here contradicting himself. If he were, I’d be responding to his posts as well.

And LK talking about “grown up” ways to handle things. Well, frankly, the examples that have been screen-shot of LK’s social media posts prior to the shooting were hardly what I would call a grown up way of handling things.

[Denali6298]

The title of this thread has taken on a whole new meaning…

[Denali6298]

@Angela Freda

THERE
WAS
NO
“BAIL”
HEARING.

Wait what? I thought that happened shortly after his arrest. That’s why he’s been sitting in jail the whole time. Bail was denied.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35Z8bbZ173c

[Dee-Vee]

I have somewhat deliberately “directed” the ire of the cyber mob at myself in an attempt to give her a break.

@LiberalSnowflake

So noble.

Beyond noble… creepy…😳

[Angela_Freda]

@Denali6298

Wait what? I thought that happened shortly after his arrest. That’s why he’s been sitting in jail the whole time. Bail was denied.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35Z8bbZ173c

I forget the details or proper terms, but no, iirc, it’s not bail…

"Under the new law, there is no bail. The New Jersey court looks at whether or not the defendant will appear in court, the community is safe, and whether the defendant will obstruct the criminal justice process. "

“By getting rid of monetary bail requirements, the New Jersey court system no longer rewards people who can pay for their bail, but who also might be dangerous or more likely to not appear at later hearings. It also allows people who cannot afford bail to be released if detaining them is not appropriate.”

Read this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/06/n…il-system.html

(ETA, bold is from the source, not my bold)

[ohnoO]

@Denali6298, I think the deal is that NJ no longer does bail. IIRC, early on (maybe in the first thread) someone explained
that the state either keeps you until trial or releases you with an order to appear—maybe with an tracking device?

This was put into place because requiring bail discriminates against poorer people (I think?).

ETA: Oh good, Angela came back and explained it better—thanks!

[Denali6298]

@Angela Freda

I forget the details or proper terms, but no, iirc, it’s not bail…

"Under the new law, there is no bail. The New Jersey court looks at whether or not the defendant will appear in court, the community is safe, and whether the defendant will obstruct the criminal justice process. "

“By getting rid of monetary bail requirements, the New Jersey court system no longer rewards people who can pay for their bail, but who also might be dangerous or more likely to not appear at later hearings. It also allows people who cannot afford bail to be released if detaining them is not appropriate.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/06/n…il-system.html

Yes I assumed people were using the common term as a catch all. Technically there was a hearing about him staying in jail or not.

Thank you for the article explaining how NJ revamped their system!

[Mersidoats]

@Manni01

This!! And I will go even a step further because I do think now you (Lalapoprider) caused this whole mess by not doing your due diligence…
you expected everybody to move you up the levels and you were not really willing to do your part… You planned to sit on a prepared horse and get your scores…You wanted everybody else to do the work and the planning…
you never looked at the rules…

[edit]

so obviously you expected your trainer to be a unicorn and blamed him when he was not… and things escalated from there…

That’s pretty obvious if she thought she was going to make her PSG debut in the CDI classes.

It’s the competitors responsibility to track their own scores and check to see if they are meeting requirements. USDF makes it pretty easy to do online. FEI does as well.

happy new year, everyone! I just bought a new horse - My Christmas/New Years/early graduation gift to myself. Going to go play with her now.

[GreenWithEnvy]

@YankeeDuchess

On the one hand, GreenWithEnvy continued to think I was possibly an alter for LK, and someone else (NotGrandPrixYet?) was speculating until earlier today that I was, if not an alter for LK, then a relative. If two of the most vehement anti-LK posters still believed until the end that I was LK or a relative, how is it that you perceive that my posting was all about a self serving attention hog who is not LK? How is it possible that I am making it all about me not LK, but simultaneously still accused of being LK or a relative?
You mocked me for saying that I was somewhat deliberately drawing the ire of the mob to myself, and also mocked me for making the issue about myself rather than LK. How do I do both of those things simultaneously?
It is untrue to say that I “made much” about how “amazingly amazing” I was for standing up to the cyber mob. After repeated accusations of being an alter for LK, I felt forced to explain that my motive was not so much to be pro-LK as to push back at the mob. This happens to be the truth and I don’t care if you believe it. So mock away. Do you imagine that I find it pleasant or enjoyable to have people bash me, insult me, question my reading comprehension and go on with lame references to junk yard dogs, who apparently are mistreated unsocialized mutts?
You say the cyber mob is “only about 10 people”. Granted. But if 75% of posts are contributed by 12 posters (LK and YD vs 10 anti-LK people) and 20 or 30 people (including you) contribute nonpartisan posts for the other 25%, then the anti-LK group is “only” 10 posters. But given the intensity and frequency of the posts of those 10, then, yes, 10 is enough to constitute a overwhelming mob. I fail to see how another 20 or 30 people mostly on the sidelines and contributing occasional posts dilutes the onslaught of the 10 intense, super invested partisans.
I perceive the ratio was 10 anti LK vs two (LK and YD). Rather lopsided.
As just one single example, do you remember how many anti LK posters mocked and taunted her about referring to MB as a “murderer” instead of an “attempted murderer”? WTF? Seems to me that when it comes to shooting someone at point blank range, it’s the thought that counts. To slag and a mock a woman who nearly died, perhaps technically died and needed to be resuscitated, because she characterized the man who shot her as a murderer? How can you view that as anything other than sick? Those mocking posts don’t further the “discussion” one iota. It’s pure bile. That’s just one tiny example.
I continue to think that a cyber mob of “only” 10 people mocking and provoking the victim of attempted murder is a second victimization.
No, you yourself don’t contribute victimizing posts. But ten intense, really invested posters is plenty to create a horrible onslaught. Your attitude is, well, that’s just what happens in these threads. If you don’t want to push back against the haters and mudslingers, who IMO contribute previous little to the actual information in the thread, that’s your call. But you’ve condoned the mocking, the gratuitous insults, and the swapping of misinformation, misinformation often twisted to suit the viewpoint of the haters. And gone out of your way to mock me for saying it stinks and for pushing back against it.
Perhaps you are so established and self confident and inherently charismatic that you cannot imagine yourself as the target of a cyber mob (even of “only 10 posters”.)

Apparently questioning the “victim” and calling out statements that make no sense is cyber-bullying and mob mentality. I’m sorry for asking questions and thinking something stinks in Denmark with some of the statements. I appreciate @YankeeDuchess has taken it upon herself to be a noble supporter and a pushback to the cyber mob. That said, one way to stop the cyber mob is for the victim to not post about the incident on SM. The one question that will not go away until the trial is, why did she stay rather than leave if the situation was so dire.

And, yes, I called you out for misidentifying me in some of your posts. You are so eager to defend LK, but we are not supposed to defend ourselves against your posts?

LK has already stated she enjoys SM and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. She said she used to post about politics (lord, there’s plenty to post about politics now!!) so perhaps a suggestion would be to enjoy SM without commenting on her legal situation at all. In other words, stop making oneself a target by saying anything at all about August 7. Personally, I’d love to hear about her horses, dogs and riding and how well she’s recovering. It takes a very strong person to push on and move on from something so life-shattering.

Hoping for a healing 2020 for many in this country.

If I post again without great reason, will the cyber mob please tell me to STHU? TIA.

[Dee-Vee]

Anybody have some cool New Year’s resolutions?

I have decided to work on my fitness to strengthen my core, which can be done while reading this thread…if necessary.

[Denali6298]

@GreenWithEnvy people did get pretty vicious. I mean bringing up someone’s performance in ones test and calling it a s*** show is not remotely related to anything. Yeah LK has bought her way up the levels and might not be ready for said levels. I dunno never seen her ride. That shouldn’t have any bearing on her character or this case. Maybe she truly thought she achieved her bronze and she’s that rider that just shows up. Who knows.

20 years ago I knew a woman who didn’t show, just rides for the pleasure of it, ride dressage and loved it. Didn’t show. Rode with a BNT in the area and bought a six figure horse. I could imagine her learning curve if she did decide to get her medals. That being said, these comments about riding ability have no bearing on her getting shot.

And again, she’s not someone I’d ever want to be friends with, but she does listen when people point things out in kindness.

I am at a loss as to why YankeeDuchess took up this particular cause. It’s clear by her posts she needs to read up on the subject. However, to deny people haven’t been vicious is crazy. People who don’t even know her and just see what she writes to go at her like they’ve been harmed by her is crazy. At the same time everyone agrees she shouldn’t be posting and those same people keep asking for details.

[Graymaresrule]

@GreenWithEnvy

Apparently questioning the “victim” and calling out statements that make no sense is cyber-bullying and mob mentality. I’m sorry for asking questions and thinking something stinks in Denmark with some of the statements. I appreciate @YankeeDuchess has taken it upon herself to be a noble supporter and a pushback to the cyber mob. That said, one way to stop the cyber mob is for the victim to not post about the incident on SM. The one question that will not go away until the trial is, why did she stay rather than leave if the situation was so dire.

And, yes, I called you out for misidentifying me in some of your posts. You are so eager to defend LK, but we are not supposed to defend ourselves against your posts?

LK has already stated she enjoys SM and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. She said she used to post about politics (lord, there’s plenty to post about politics now!!) so perhaps a suggestion would be to enjoy SM without commenting on her legal situation at all. In other words, stop making oneself a target by saying anything at all about August 7. Personally, I’d love to hear about her horses, dogs and riding and how well she’s recovering. It takes a very strong person to push on and move on from something so life-shattering.

Hoping for a healing 2020 for many in this country.

If I post again without great reason, will the cyber mob please tell me to STHU? TIA.

I think both LK and YD are enjoying the attention.

[Wilbury_Pie]

@Denali6298

@GreenWithEnvy people did get pretty vicious. I mean bringing up someone’s performance in ones test and calling it a s*** show is not remotely related to anything. Yeah LK has bought her way up the levels and might not be ready for said levels. I dunno never seen her ride. That shouldn’t have any bearing on her character or this case. Maybe she truly thought she achieved her bronze and she’s that rider that just shows up. Who knows.

20 years ago I knew a woman who didn’t show, just rides for the pleasure of it, ride dressage and loved it. Didn’t show. Rode with a BNT in the area and bought a six figure horse. I could imagine her learning curve if she did decide to get her medals. That being said, these comments about riding ability have no bearing on her getting shot.

And again, she’s not someone I’d ever want to be friends with, but she does listen when people point things out in kindness.

I am at a loss as to why YankeeDuchess took up this particular cause. It’s clear by her posts she needs to read up on the subject. However, to deny people haven’t been vicious is crazy. People who don’t even know her and just see what she writes to go at her like they’ve been harmed by her is crazy. At the same time everyone agrees she shouldn’t be posting and those same people keep asking for details.

I agree with much of what you wrote here, but I think clarification on one point is needed. I recall that the comment was about LKs behaviour at a show, not on her riding skills (although the poster did say they beat her). The behaviour described is inappropriate and stresses everyone out at shows.

yankeedutch, don’t bother, I ignore everything you post.

[BigMama1]

[quote="“GreenWithEnvy,post:1258,topic:464204”]

@La-LaPopRider

If I was in fear for my life and being harassed, I guarantee I could find a place to move 5 horses with their tack as well as all my clothes in less time than it would take to buy surveillance equipment and install it in the barn area. As far south as this relationship appears to have disintegrated, it is hard to comprehend there was any thought of reconciliation.

Not trying to be rude or argumentative.

Here’s to a New Start in a New Year for everyone.

In a similar situation where I was in genuine fear for my life or my horse’s safety I believe I would happily sacrifice tack, equipment, clothes and personal belongings, no matter how much they were worth. They are all replaceable. As long as I could get myself and my animals to a place of safety. I want to believe that, particularly because there are animals involved. Were it me on my own I can’t be so certain.

We never know how we’re going to react and you may not think your life is in danger until it is. I remember being in my kitchen with my sort of boyfriend holding a large knife to my throat, telling me how much he would enjoy killing me. Only in that instant did I have a realization that “oh, this is actually how women get killed by their partners.” And yet my instinct wasn’t to run, or to scream for my roommate to call 911; it was to continue arguing with him (as we had been for hours) and laughing at him and telling him what a pathetic human being he was.

[Denali6298]

@Wilbury Pie

I agree with much of what you wrote here, but I think clarification on one point is needed. I recall that the comment was about LKs behaviour at a show, not on her riding skills (although the poster did say they beat her). The behaviour described is inappropriate and stresses everyone out at shows.

ladyduch, don’t bother, I ignore everything you post.

That post was based on pure speculation. She was making a guess about what happens back at the barn. Also your note to ladyj proves my point with the name calling and all around bs about this subject. Few know actually know her and have interacted with her but many like to throw shade.

[Denali6298]

[quote="“BigMama1,post:1279,topic:464204”]

@GreenWithEnvy

In a similar situation where I was in genuine fear for my life or my horse’s safety I believe I would happily sacrifice tack, equipment, clothes and personal belongings, no matter how much they were worth. They are all replaceable. As long as I could get myself and my animals to a place of safety. I want to believe that, particularly because there are animals involved. Were it me on my own I can’t be so certain.

We never know how we’re going to react and you may not think your life is in danger until it is. I remember being in my kitchen with my sort of boyfriend holding a large knife to my throat, telling me how much he would enjoy killing me. Only in that instant did I have a realization that “oh, this is actually how women get killed by their partners.” And yet my instinct wasn’t to run, or to scream for my roommate to call 911; it was to continue arguing with him (as we had been for hours) and laughing at him and telling him what a pathetic human being he was.

So much this. We just don’t know.

[YankeeDuchess]

@Angela Freda

Uh, not that it means she should have been shot, but:

if (g) you have a history of bad behavior, and end up in a scuffle, it’s not rocket science to hypothesize that (g) your bad behavior may have played some role in the crumbling of said relationship.

I agree. You hypothesize that, based on her track record, she must have been at fault for poking the bear, tormenting MB, and provoking him. Until “she broke his mind” and that led to his shooting her.

If it was her bad, provocative behavior which precipitated the shooting, then she is at least partly responsible for being shot.

I see this as victim blaming. Could be, hypothetically, that she provoked him. You assume she did, based on her past behavior. This is where your (g) previous claim that she reported him for child abuse comes in. If she had done so, that would have been harassment and provoking, making the situation worse, etc

But I believe she initiated her report to SS was based on her complaint of bullying by him toward her. NOT child abuse. I would consider having the cops called on me in response to my declining to sign new documents as bullying. Have no clue what other intimidation was or was not going on. But no evidence I see of harassment on her part toward him.

I have a hypothetical scenario that is consistent with her statement that she did nothing to cause the shooting.

He insisted she sign a new set of documents, probably having to fo with financial stuff, and the ante was at least $50,000. Believing she is in the right, she says “no “. Believing her position would prevail in court if went to court, she refuses to capitulate to whatever he wants.

You assume she did something obnoxious and provoking like alleging child abuse because of her past behavior. However unlikely in your eyes, it is conceivable to me that she did nothing other than refuse to capitulate to whatever it was he wanted. She called SS alleging bullying. She got shot.

In this scenario, one of many possible scenarios, she didn’t “do” anything other than refuse to sign documents and gets shot.

I don’t think it is OK to continually hammer her to “admit to her role” in causing the tragedy, purely based on your SPECULATION, based on her past behavior, that she “did” anything other than decline to sign papers.

Based on her past behavior, some people ASSUME she INITIATED a report to SS alleging child abuse. I don’t see the evidence. A report to SS alleging bullying seems warranted.

If the scenario is as I described, and she did not “do” anything other than refuse to sign documents and report bullying to SS, would you hold her responsible for being shot?

Do you have any evidence for ACTUAL bad behavior on her part in July - Aug 7, as opposed to predicting there was some based on her bad behavior from 20 years ago and the quarrels with the two people from the previous thread?

In the absence of actual provocative behavior, I think it is victim blaming to continue to insist, directly or indirectly, that she is responsible to being shot, or for putting MB in prison.

In the dispute over documents, if you think you are the party that will prevail in court, it is particularly irrational to resort to attempted murder to solve he problem.