That's a twist

[x-halt-salute]

@smoofox wishing your guy a full and speedy recovery from the pneumonia.

[MHM]

@YankeeDuchess

The issue is where to draw the line between what constitutes “victim blaming” vs “open discussion”.

Who elected you to draw that line?

What makes your assumptions/theories/hypothetical situations/whatever you want to call them more valid than anyone else’s?

You have your own theories. Other people have different theories. Some people have made unsubstantiated statements. Until or unless the facts come out in a court of law, it’s all conjecture at this point. Why do you think you should bludgeon other posters with your views?

If you want to buy The Chronicle and dictate policies on the BB as the owner of the website, have at it. In the meantime, everyone gets to voice their opinions and discuss them. That’s how it works here.

[MHM]

@x-halt-salute

@smoofox wishing your guy a full and speedy recovery from the pneumonia.

Ditto!

[NotGrandPrixYet]

Originally posted by YankeeDuchess View Post

“On the one hand, GreenWithEnvy continued to think I was possibly an alter for LK, and someone else (NotGrandPrixYet?) was speculating until earlier today that I was, if not an alter for LK, then a relative. If two of the most vehement anti-LK posters still believed until the end that I was LK or a relative,…”

So, you weren’t referring to me here?

[YankeeDuchess]

@smoofox

The bolded?
An awful lot of transference there. You have been sneering and mocking and insulting - all under the guise of being the noble warrior defending LK from the same even though you are “pro-LK” or not really “pro-LK” depending on the latest post you have written. I have not “gone out of my way” to “mock” you. You are all over this thread in everyone’s faces blasting away. Front and center.

The blue.
You did say that you were heroically trying to draw the ire of that cyber-mob to you. You have repeatedly patted yourself on the back for doing so all while insulting other posters and being pro-LK (or again, not pro-LK as mentioned above) - so yes, you have been doing this “simultaneously” for many pages now. You have also repeatedly declared that only you have pushed back - which is simply not the case as many posters here can attest - as they have also done so. Without the need to fling molotov cocktails in all directions and then complain about the incendiary results.

I still maintain and suggest that LK should not be posting here at all - as it does not help in any way whatsoever. But that is her decision to make…

The red.
You have suggested that all these threads were a vast cyber-mob that only you could recognize and vanquish. That is/was wrong - at least you have now admitted that much. Parse numbers all you want. I was just pointing out that contrary to some claims you made, there is a small core of posters that are problematical - and not the vast evil “mob” that you were railing against. My attitude is NOT “well, that is just what happens” - I have no “attitude” about this. No one has condoned any of the behavior in this thread. I have tried to point out that discussions can run their course with factual rebuttals and push back as needed and that wildly lashing out in all directions and condemning, sneering, flailing about, lighting fires, and making things even worse serves no purpose other than to further muddy the waters, derail the thread and draw attention to yourself. But then that may be what you want. Demanding in a mocking way that you should be reported and banned… is just a bit sad to me.

ETA: I have been up all night with a stallion who decided to bring in the New Year with a nasty case of pneumonia… any typos I have missed, bad grammar or faulty punctuation can be blamed on him.

I have said, truthfully, that I am here not BECAUSE I am pro-LK , but because I found what I perceived to be a cyber mob of about 10 people appalling. Since the partisan clash is most easily described as pro or any LK, I do sometimes

as a short hand describe my self as pro-LK. But that is shorthand. It is still true whether you believe it or not my reason for being here is not that I know LK, am her alter or relative, but instead see her as the abstraction of a shooting victim being blamed and bullied by a small group of intensely invested posters.
I have not read the previous three threads and don’t intend to.
My first posts were calm and polite. Over the course of the exchange, things got heated, on both sides, with many insults and accusations addressed to me, and I regret and apologize - very sincerely - for my tone and style. But it did not seem exactly unmatched by the “tone” I was receiving at the time.
I continue to think that a small core of about 10 really invested posters ganging up on the victim of a gunshot wound is a travesty.

[YankeeDuchess]

@NotGrandPrixYet

Originally posted by YankeeDuchess View Post

“On the one hand, GreenWithEnvy continued to think I was possibly an alter for LK, and someone else (NotGrandPrixYet?) was speculating until earlier today that I was, if not an alter for LK, then a relative. If two of the most vehement anti-LK posters still believed until the end that I was LK or a relative,…”

So, you weren’t referring to me here?

You got me. I did say it. I did say you were vehemently anti-LK. I apologize.

[Angela_Freda]

@YankeeDuchess

I understand NJ no longer does monetary bail. I was referring to the hearing in which they determine whether he is released or not as a “bail” hearing, which is incorrect terminology. There is a hearing at which information about the recordings may have been been introduced, but it is not a properly called a bail hearing.

Actually I believe they do still have monetary bail, but again, read… the … article to confirm.

“Bail is still an option, but the reality is that judges have nearly done away with it. In the 3,382 cases statewide that were processed in the first four weeks of January, judges set bail only three times. An additional 283 defendants were held without bail because they were accused of a serious crime or were a significant flight risk, or both.”
from linked NYT article.

[YankeeDuchess]

@x-halt-salute

I’m reminded of the old SNL sketch where an 18th century lord creates fodder for others’ ridicule by proclaiming, “You mock me! I will not be mocked!” But I’ll resist the temptation.

Have you ever considered that instead of swashbuckling your way into the middle of what you perceive to be an unruly mob and then puffing out your chest waiting for someone to pin a medal on it, you might actually do more to help quell the debates and questions and inflammatory posts about this tragedy by … not posting a steady stream of hypotheticals and personal theories and challenges on this thread like it’s your job?

Have you ever considered that the best way to turn a conversation away from outrage and back to level-headed discussion is not to loudly proclaim your perspective as truth and declare anyone who disagrees with you to be a villain, but rather to find some empathy or common ground with your interlocutors? Lala has done that far more effectively than you. Are your contributions really helping her?

Have you ever considered that there are a diversity of perspectives here that don’t boil down to “pro-LK” and “anti-LK”? That there are more than a couple people here who’ve experienced violent assault in their past, and empathize with the devastation that can cause and the work of putting pieces back together, who are rooting for LK to triumph over this crime regardless of whether they believe the story patched together in public discussion is complete or reliable? That there are plenty of people who are horrified by MB and his behavior and want him to face justice, but also struggle to comprehend how any human being could embody the sheer, unalloyed ineptitude it would take for a premeditated murder attempt to play out as this incident did? Most people here see this situation as complex, comprised of multiple elements in which luck, judgment, and intent might have varied in direction and magnitude, but you insist on boiling this down to two opposing fronts and a binary for blame. Have you ever considered that trying to sort everyone into good guy and bad guy categories generates unnecessary opposition, and might intensify the acrimony?

You can call yourself a hero all you want, or dream about martyrdom by post-flagging. But at the end of the day, your quest to single-handedly vanquish some perceived mean girl conspiracy is counter-productive w.r.t. the length and rancor of this thread. From the other side of the screen, you appear to be just another person at a keyboard willing to judge strangers and speculate about a tragedy for the sake of your own entertainment.

I appreciate Lauren’s willingness to answer the questions that have been asked respectfully, and I hope the new year brings her health, and resiliency for the publicity and conversations that will inevitably follow this case.

Not looking for a medal. The point of the scenario was to point out that it has not been established that LK “did” anything other than refuse to sign documents to create a situation in which she got shot.

[Angela_Freda]

@YankeeDuchess

Not looking for a medal. The point of the scenario was to point out that it has not been established that LK “did” anything other than refuse to sign documents to create a situation in which she got shot.

I’m not sure the refusal to, or unsigned documents has been proven.
Point being there’s actually very, very little we do know beyond LK was shot, and MB is the alleged shooter.

[YankeeDuchess]

@MHM

Who elected you to draw that line?

What makes your assumptions/theories/hypothetical situations/whatever you want to call them more valid than anyone else’s?

You have your own theories. Other people have different theories. Some people have made unsubstantiated statements. Until or unless the facts come out in a court of law, it’s all conjecture at this point. Why do you think you should bludgeon other posters with your views?

If you want to buy The Chronicle and dictate policies on the BB as the owner of the website, have at it. In the meantime, everyone gets to voice their opinions and discuss them. That’s how it works here.

I didn’t say I get to draw the line. I said it is easy to agree that victim shaming is bad and open discussion is good, but very difficult to agree on the line that separates the two.

I have indicated in some instances where I would draw the line. I assume others would draw the line differently. I assume there are some who say “victim shaming is not OK” but would be unwilling to point to a single post which they would label victim shaming.

Just saying it is very hard to have a consensus on where the line should be drawn.

I never said my hypothetical scenarios were more valid than anyone else’s. But I try to clearly label what is a hypothetical scenario and what is presented as fact. I have criticized others not for making assumptions but for stating them as fact.

[YankeeDuchess]

@Angela Freda

I’m not sure the refusal to, or unsigned documents has been proven.
Point being there’s actually very, very little we do know beyond LK was shot, and MB is the alleged shooter.

I take the recorded 911 call as evidence that MB wanted LK to sign documents and she refused. That was stated by MB as the basis for the call. She has said that she refused to sign an “agreement”.

 Is there really any question as to who shot the gun?

[FatDinah]

@YankeeDuchess

I take the recorded 911 call as evidence that MB wanted LK to sign documents and she refused. That was stated by MB as the basis for the call. She has said that she refused to sign an “agreement”.

Is there really any question as to who shot the gun?

But the circumstances in a shooting do matter. It’s rarely black and white. Just look at the many police shootings where an officer fired thinking someone is reaching for a weapon and they’re getting their license or where officers think someone has a gun and it’s a cell phone.
We don’t know the circumstances in this incident except from LK. And I don’t find her credible. She obviously recas ts events to help herself. There’s nothing obvious, at least not until Barisone gives his account.

[x-halt-salute]

@YankeeDuchess

Not looking for a medal.

Of course. You’ve been so humble about your perceived role here:

@YankeeDuchess

Have you failed to notice that by pushing back on the mob, I’m getting slagged and insulted myself?

@YankeeDuchess

I am fascinated with the notion that I may be banned. I would find it deliciously ironic if the one person consistently standing up for the victim against cyber revictimization is the person banned.

@YankeeDuchess

I have somewhat deliberately “directed” the ire of the cyber mob at myself in an attempt to give her a break.

@YankeeDuchess

Yes, my purpose is to clap back at the cyber mob! I admit it!

As for this:

@YankeeDuchess

The point of the scenario was to point out that it has not been established that LK “did” anything other than refuse to sign documents to create a situation in which she got shot.

I have no idea what scenario you refer to, nor am I interested in your speculation about documents. My comments relate to your protestations in the post I quoted that your fight for justice against an ostensible mob was being made light of, and the aggregate impacts of dozens and dozens of posts you’ve felt the need to make in this thread.

[YankeeDuchess]

@FatDinah

But the circumstances in a shooting do matter. It’s rarely black and white. Just look at the many police shootings where an officer fired thinking someone is reaching for a weapon and they’re getting their license or where officers think someone has a gun and it’s a cell phone.
We don’t know the circumstances in this incident except from LK. And I don’t find her credible. She obviously recas ts events to help herself. There’s nothing obvious, at least not until Barisone gives his account.

We have the 911 calls. We know that he was indicted on two counts of attempted murder, which indicates that the police have serious evidence of premeditation.

What I really don’t understand is why people are hammering her to explain what “her role in the chain of events” leading to being shot was, and to “take responsibility for it” or explain why she “didn’t leave”, when as far as I know, there is no evidence that beyond saying “no, I won’t sign the documents” she “did” anything at all. She didn’t capitulate to whatever MB was demanding.

Suggesting or stating that she is partly to blame for the sequence of events is, IMHO, blaming the victim given that at this point there is no evidence that she actually DID “do” anything beyond refusing to sign a document. It is certainly CONCEIVABLE that she provided some provocation, many people apparently strongly SUSPECT she did, based on her past behavior, but there is no evidence that she ACTUALLY DID anything in provocation, aside from declining to sign documents.

Thus I think it is unfair or at least premature to pressure her to “take responsibility” for the fact that she was shot and MB was in prison.

[YankeeDuchess]

@x-halt-salute

Of course. You’ve been so humble about your perceived role here:

As for this:

I have no idea what scenario you refer to, nor am I interested in your speculation about documents. My comments relate to your protestations in the post I quoted that your fight for justice against an ostensible mob was being made light of, and the aggregate impacts of dozens and dozens of posts you’ve felt the need to make in this thread.

Not sure of what you are accusing me of here.

[Denali6298]

Happy new year everyone! I’m watching the winter classic, making pea soup, and my co-pilot for the last 13 years is enjoying his ham bone from the broth.

[tryintogethere]

@YankeeDuchess

We have the 911 calls. We know that he was indicted on two counts of attempted murder, which indicates that the police have serious evidence of premeditation.

What I really don’t understand is why people are hammering her to explain what “her role in the chain of events” leading to being shot was, and to “take responsibility for it” or explain why she “didn’t leave”, when as far as I know, there is no evidence that beyond saying “no, I won’t sign the documents” she “did” anything at all. She didn’t capitulate to whatever MB was demanding.

Suggesting or stating that she is partly to blame for the sequence of events is, IMHO, blaming the victim given that at this point there is no evidence that she actually DID “do” anything beyond refusing to sign a document. It is certainly CONCEIVABLE that she provided some provocation, many people apparently strongly SUSPECT she did, based on her past behavior, but there is no evidence that she ACTUALLY DID anything in provocation, aside from declining to sign documents.

Thus I think it is unfair or at least premature to pressure her to “take responsibility” for the fact that she was shot and MB was in prison.

You would have a better understanding if you would look at LK’s fb posts prior to the shooting, and if you would take the time to read the other thread. Just sayin’.

[Angela_Freda]

@YankeeDuchess

We have the 911 calls. We know that he was indicted on two counts of attempted murder, which indicates that the police have serious evidence of premeditation.

What I really don’t understand is why people are hammering her to explain what “her role in the chain of events” leading to being shot was, and to “take responsibility for it” or explain why she “didn’t leave”, when as far as I know, there is no evidence that beyond saying “no, I won’t sign the documents” she “did” anything at all. She didn’t capitulate to whatever MB was demanding.

Suggesting or stating that she is partly to blame for the sequence of events is, IMHO, blaming the victim given that at this point there is no evidence that she actually DID “do” anything beyond refusing to sign a document. It is certainly CONCEIVABLE that she provided some provocation, many people apparently strongly SUSPECT she did, based on her past behavior, but there is no evidence that she ACTUALLY DID anything in provocation, aside from declining to sign documents.

Thus I think it is unfair or at least premature to pressure her to “take responsibility” for the fact that she was shot and MB was in prison.

I dont see anyone suggesting the bold portion. Can you quote that post(s)?

If you’re referring to me, again, you misrepresent what I said. Read it again.

[FatDinah]

@YankeeDuchess

We have the 911 calls. We know that he was indicted on two counts of attempted murder, which indicates that the police have serious evidence of premeditation.

What I really don’t understand is why people are hammering her to explain what “her role in the chain of events” leading to being shot was, and to “take responsibility for it” or explain why she “didn’t leave”, when as far as I know, there is no evidence that beyond saying “no, I won’t sign the documents” she “did” anything at all. She didn’t capitulate to whatever MB was demanding.

Suggesting or stating that she is partly to blame for the sequence of events is, IMHO, blaming the victim given that at this point there is no evidence that she actually DID “do” anything beyond refusing to sign a document. It is certainly CONCEIVABLE that she provided some provocation, many people apparently strongly SUSPECT she did, based on her past behavior, but there is no evidence that she ACTUALLY DID anything in provocation, aside from declining to sign documents.

Thus I think it is unfair or at least premature to pressure her to “take responsibility” for the fact that she was shot and MB was in prison.

You are misinterpreting my statement. I am saying we don’t know what Barisone was thinking or his intent to go there with a gun. Or why he fired. He might have thought he was being threatened. Maybe his fear was realistic or maybe not.
As to charges, it’s typical for prosecutors to indict on the highest charge to give room for negotiation in any future plea deal. Which I still think is where this will end up.
LK has been sued by the property owners. (The start of this thread ☺). Should we assume she’s liable for damages just because there is a legal filing? Yet, you assume just because Barisone is charged that he’s guilty of premeditated murder.

[x-halt-salute]

@YankeeDuchess

Not sure of what you are accusing me of here.

Maybe you’d get along better if you didn’t look for accusations in every single post.