That's a twist

[strangewings]

@YankeeDuchess

The point of the scenario was to point out that it has not been established that LK “did” anything other than refuse to sign documents to create a situation in which she got shot.

Did you listen to all of the 911 calls that MB made? Over the multiple 911 calls, MB indicated that he was threatened, harassed, and menaced by LK and RG, driven from his home due to their behavior/actions and felt he and his family were unsafe and fearful. I’m paraphrasing - wording may not be exactly that used in the calls. That’s what people are considering evidence of provocation by her in the lead-up to the shooting - they are not simply assuming she “must have” done something based on past behavior.

Vague, sure, so we have no idea exactly what she was doing to make him say that (trespassing and disturbing the peace were reasons given for other calls), but the documents were only mentioned once briefly at the beginning of one of the latter calls. We don’t have any reason to believe “documents” were involved at all prior to that call, and so refusing to sign them seems like a minor element in this situation.

Standard disclaimer: Not an alter, don’t know anyone, not on any side, don’t think she should have been shot, not trying to blame the victim or say she should “take responsibility”, no question MB shot her. Terrible situation all around and I hope the other clients and employees are doing ok.

[x-halt-salute]

@strangewings

Terrible situation all around and I hope the other clients and employees are doing ok.

Hear, hear!

[La-LaPopRider]

@Manni01

This!! And I will go even a step further because I do think now you (Lalapoprider) caused this whole mess by not doing your due diligence…
you expected everybody to move you up the levels and you were not really willing to do your part… You planned to sit on a prepared horse and get your scores…You wanted everybody else to do the work and the planning…
you never looked at the rules…

. Sorry I know the sport goes this way but I think it’s very sad and in my experience trainers are never ever perfect.

so obviously you expected your trainer to be a unicorn and blamed him when he was not… and things escalated from there…

Happy New Year to everybody and a great 2020 with your horses!!! I look forward to a gorgeous clinic next week with my lovely mare and a Grand Prix rider whom I not expect to do anything but improve my riding…

Well, I guess you should assume whatever your heart desires. You’ll go far, I’m sure.

[La-LaPopRider]

@strangewings

Did you listen to all of the 911 calls that MB made? Over the multiple 911 calls, MB indicated that he was threatened, harassed, and menaced by LK and RG, driven from his home due to their behavior/actions and felt he and his family were unsafe and fearful. I’m paraphrasing - wording may not be exactly that used in the calls. That’s what people are considering evidence of provocation by her in the lead-up to the shooting - they are not simply assuming she “must have” done something based on past behavior.

Vague, sure, so we have no idea exactly what she was doing to make him say that (trespassing and disturbing the peace were reasons given for other calls), but the documents were only mentioned once briefly at the beginning of one of the latter calls. We don’t have any reason to believe “documents” were involved at all prior to that call, and so refusing to sign them seems like a minor element in this situation.

Standard disclaimer: Not an alter, don’t know anyone, not on any side, don’t think she should have been shot, not trying to blame the victim or say she should “take responsibility”, no question MB shot her. Terrible situation all around and I hope the other clients and employees are doing ok.

Anyone can make 911 calls & SAY anything. You do realize police responded to each call, right? She police respond to 911 calls, they make detailed reports. Very detailed. From both parties.

[YankeeDuchess]

@Jenerationx

Clearly reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit. If you’re going to aggravate someone you’re afraid might be out to hurt you, you don’t do that while sitting on their property. You get some distance from them and then deal with it. You know, if there’s a bear and you poke it with a 1 foot stick, it’s more likely to maul you than if you use a very long stick. Simple logic.

As far as why I’m on this forum? I didn’t realize current horse ownership was a condition of forum membership. Do you get to have 6 accounts?

Example of someone saying she aggravated someone, and failed to move out, so got hurt.

[YankeeDuchess]

@AnotherRound

So wait - what career?

But what I can’t get over, she went back to the now empty property, her horses were gone, everyone was gone, and effing lived there for how many months? The property she wouldn’t leave when asked, and when MB started eviction proceedings to get her off of, and wouldn’t pay rent on, where she harrassed this guy until she broke his brain and shot her, she goes back and squats there until what last week. The brass balls. And didn’t feed the barn cats while she was there, either, apparently, a neighbor put on her personal page a photo of a barn cat that wasn’t being fed.

And what freaking carreer? She’s not a professional, wasn’t headed in that direction, and claims she was an ammy. Just doesn’t stop.

This one. No evidence she was asked to leave, no evidence he had started eviction proceedings, no evidence she has behind in rent, but states ”she harassed this guy until she broke his brain and shot her.”

I consider this victim blaming.

Do not want to take the time to search further.

[La-LaPopRider]

@strangewings

Did you listen to all of the 911 calls that MB made? Over the multiple 911 calls, MB indicated that he was threatened, harassed, and menaced by LK and RG, driven from his home due to their behavior/actions and felt he and his family were unsafe and fearful. I’m paraphrasing - wording may not be exactly that used in the calls. That’s what people are considering evidence of provocation by her in the lead-up to the shooting - they are not simply assuming she “must have” done something based on past behavior.

Vague, sure, so we have no idea exactly what she was doing to make him say that (trespassing and disturbing the peace were reasons given for other calls), but the documents were only mentioned once briefly at the beginning of one of the latter calls. We don’t have any reason to believe “documents” were involved at all prior to that call, and so refusing to sign them seems like a minor element in this situation.

Standard disclaimer: Not an alter, don’t know anyone, not on any side, don’t think she should have been shot, not trying to blame the victim or say she should “take responsibility”, no question MB shot her. Terrible situation all around and I hope the other clients and employees are doing ok.

Question for you- If you were being “threatened and harassed & menaced,” would you not do the obvious & whip out your phone to record it? I mean, *especially,” if you with “others,” who could call 911? Seemed like a pretty obvious thing for US to do. Installing cameras, recording everything on our phones on video, etc… But, then again, we were ACTUALLY being harassed, bullied & menaced. If you’re missing the picture here, it’s because you’re refusing to see it. That’s on you- not me.

How many videos do you see on YouTube of people who are pulled over by police & immediately begin recording Incase the officer breaks rules? A million? Just an example. I suspect if these accusations were real, you will footage from these non existent “tortures,” from me. Agreed?

[Jenerationx]

@YankeeDuchess

Example of someone saying she aggravated someone, and failed to move out, so got hurt.

Taken out of context, This was a response to apparently LK not understanding my metaphor from another post. Yes, I think if you’re in a situation with a landlord, trainer, roommate etc where 911 has been called multiple times, you get the hell out before aggravating the situation further. This does not excuse anyone from shooting someone else and I never blamed anyone but MB for that.

[YankeeDuchess]

@Jenerationx

Taken out of context, This was a response to apparently LK not understanding my metaphor from another post. Yes, I think if you’re in a situation with a landlord, trainer, roommate etc where 911 has been called multiple times, you get the hell out before aggravating the situation further. This does not excuse anyone from shooting someone else and I never blamed anyone but MB for that.

If she had left, she would not have been shot. True.

My point was you said she aggravated him, poking the bear, and I do not see evidence that she “did” anything to aggravate him beyond refusing to sign documents. Not signing documents aggravated him to the point he called 911, but I think she has the right to decline to sign documents, regardless of the nature of the documents.

[La-LaPopRider]

Originally posted by AnotherRound View Post
So wait - what career?

But what I can’t get over, she went back to the now empty property, her horses were gone, everyone was gone, and effing lived there for how many months? The property she wouldn’t leave when asked, and when MB started eviction proceedings to get her off of, and wouldn’t pay rent on, where she harrassed this guy until she broke his brain and shot her, she goes back and squats there until what last week. The brass balls. And didn’t feed the barn cats while she was there, either, apparently, a neighbor put on her personal page a photo of a barn cat that wasn’t being fed.

And what freaking carreer? She’s not a professional, wasn’t headed in that direction, and claims she was an ammy. Just doesn’t stop. [QUOTE]

Um, no. The picture of the cat was posted by neighbor. Further, I believe we & our lawyers would know exactly when we left, not you, though.

In addition, there are far too many “professionals,” in the horse world without a day of real training to become such. I could declare myself “pro,” right now if I so wished & I will, when I feel the time is right. That said, I am still an AA & my job has been the same for 20 yrs. Non-horse related. My “career,” is Dressage. By “career,” I mean, “becoming the best rider & horsewoman I can possibly become,” - there’s a regular MB quote for ya!

[YankeeDuchess]

@strangewings

Did you listen to all of the 911 calls that MB made? Over the multiple 911 calls, MB indicated that he was threatened, harassed, and menaced by LK and RG, driven from his home due to their behavior/actions and felt he and his family were unsafe and fearful. I’m paraphrasing - wording may not be exactly that used in the calls. That’s what people are considering evidence of provocation by her in the lead-up to the shooting - they are not simply assuming she “must have” done something based on past behavior.

Vague, sure, so we have no idea exactly what she was doing to make him say that (trespassing and disturbing the peace were reasons given for other calls), but the documents were only mentioned once briefly at the beginning of one of the latter calls. We don’t have any reason to believe “documents” were involved at all prior to that call, and so refusing to sign them seems like a minor element in this situation.

Standard disclaimer: Not an alter, don’t know anyone, not on any side, don’t think she should have been shot, not trying to blame the victim or say she should “take responsibility”, no question MB shot her. Terrible situation all around and I hope the other clients and employees are doing ok.

Yes, if you accept MBs statement (the statement of the alleged attempted murderer) that they were being harassed, as clear evidence they were being harassed, that was provocation. LK says she was not harassing. You believe him (the alleged perp in the shooting) and not her, the victim of the shooting.

Disbelieving the victim of the shooting and taking the word of the shooter, when you have no evidence beyond the claim of the shooter, I consider victim blaming.

Does she get a presumption of innocence? Presumption that possibly she did not provoke the bear?

[La-LaPopRider]

@YankeeDuchess

If she had left, she would not have been shot. True.

My point was you said she aggravated him, poking the bear, I do not see evidence that she “did” anything to aggravate him
beyond refusing to sign documents. Not signing documents aggravated him to the point he called 911, but I think she has the right to decline to sign documents, regardless of the nature of the documents.

Yes… exactly. Exactly.
And, evidence is everything. At least in every court system I know of, in civilization. Personally, if I need to call the police, I have evidence to show them. For people claiming in their 911 calls, they’re being “serially harassed,” one might surmise they would record any & all incidents, as well as installing cameras. They had cameras to plug in. They had WiFi to run them. I’d be asking everyone “why didn’t they simply place the cameras up?” Except we know already to this answer, unfortunately. And to the point of whoever first said “had she left, she wouldn’t have been shot,” I have 2 retorts.
1.) Don’t be so sure.
2.) Not leaving somewhere one had a right to be - does not warrant being killed. Or… “attempted KILLED.” Good god. (Smh)

[ladyj79]

@FatDinah

LK has been sued by the property owners. (The start of this thread ☺). Should we assume she’s liable for damages just because there is a legal filing? Yet, you assume just because Barisone is charged that he’s guilty of premeditated murder.

I mean, isn’t Michael Barisone also a defendant in the suit by the property owner (per the first post)?

[FatDinah]

@ladyj79

I mean, isn’t Michael Barisone also a defendant in the suit by the property owner (per the first post)?

Yes, he is. Or at least his business entity. I suspect that is an avenue to sue where there are actual assets since he, as an indivi dual in jail, likely can say he doesn’t have any.
Godwin is also named as a defendant.
One interpretation is that the plaintiff thinks they all contributed to the damages suffered. Another is that the plaintiff is firing a scatter shot case so they can get money from someone.
Which goes to my point, civil filings and criminal filings are not proof of anyone’s innocence/guilt or responsibility.
Neither are unsubstantiated claims of incriminating videos and audio tapes and vague accusations of conspiracies for murder, bronze medals, and trainer overcharges.
And, as an aside, if I had someone on my property putting up surveillance cameras, bugging the barn, and videoing me with a phone, I would feel harassed.

[strangewings]

@YankeeDuchess

Yes, if you accept MBs statement (the statement of the alleged attempted murder) that they were being harassed, as clear evidence they were being harassed, that was provocation. LK says she was not harassing. You believe him (the alleged perp in the shooting) and not her, the victim of the shooting.

Disbelieving the victim of the shooting and taking the word of the shooter, when you have no evidence beyond the claim of the shooter, I consider victim blaming.

Does she get a presumption of innocence? Presumption that possibly she did not provoke the bear?

Agreed that this is only evidence of her doing the things he says if you take him at his word on the calls. Lauren correctly points out that anyone can say anything on a 911 call and we only have his statements on those calls and not her version. So I am not saying what I or anyone should believe about what he says is happening on those calls.

I am just pointing out that there are calls that predate any mention of documents that indicate there were apparently escalating problems/tensions unrelated to her refusal to sign documents, which has been your singular focus. My point is mainly about the role of the documents, not about what she did or didn’t do in the escalation.

She says important information will come out at the trial and that there is more to this than any of us know. I believe that and am frankly not going to believe much else from either party until more details are public.

[ohnoO]

@x-halt-salute

@smoofox wishing your guy a full and speedy recovery from the pneumonia.

Me, too, many many times over!

I must admit that I don’t ever remembering hearing of a horse getting pneumonia! Where have I been? In Lucky-Land I suppose! 😱

[FatDinah]

@ohnoO

Me, too, many many times over!

I must admit that I don’t ever remembering hearing of a horse getting pneumonia! Where have I been? In Lucky-Land I suppose! 😱

My horse as a yearlin g inhaled some feed (long story how) and my vet put him on antibiotics as a precaution against infection/pneumonia.

[YankeeDuchess]

@ladyj79

I mean, isn’t Michael Barisone also a defendant in the suit by the property owner (per the first post)?

Yes, and my understanding is that the property owner is an LLC partly owned by MB! I think that was the original “twist”.

[smoofox]

@YankeeDuchess

I have not read the previous three threads and don’t intend to.

I am dubious that you have not read the other threads - but if in fact you haven’t, that is even worse. That would mean that you just stormed in here on your white charger with guns blazing and proceeded to go on the attack without any idea of what had gone on before. You just merrily painted everyone with a broad brush of condemnation and contempt, took on the role of martyred hero and started trying to light as many fires as possible in any way possible - and then cried foul when you were called out for it.

If you indeed have not read the other threads and yet continue to “know” everything about other posters’ motives etc., then maybe you should get off your high horse and actually read them.

---

Vet just left. We did ultrasounds and thankfully, there are no fluid pockets in his lungs. Heavy course of meds over the next few days, quiet (!!!) and stall rest. Something this guy does not particularly like…

We have no idea how he got it - aspirated something at some point? Who knows. He was fine one day, galloping and playing in his pasture - and then WHAM!! bad the next. This guy is truly a bubble-wrap horse… if there is some ailment to be had or injury to be subjected to, he will do it/find it.

:concern:

[La-LaPopRider]

@Angela Freda

THERE
WAS
NO
“BAIL”
HEARING.

Weird. My father, sister & RG were all there. It was referred to by the court as “bail hearing.” If there is a technical “new name,” no one at the courthouse has used it in my presence. And anyway, who cares what the “name,” is. It’s the purpose which matters. He was denied release- period.