The "heavy" horse and the hunter ring

[findeight]

Without the gag itself though

[skydy]

@pony_grandma

Trainer rides - If the trainer rides better than they train.

Food for thought. @cswoodlandfairy does your trainer show when you go to rated shows? Does she ride well?
If she does, I think @findeight has a good idea. Pay your trainer to ride him in a little class, just to see how much your tension at the show may be contributing to his.

You’ll still need to take a lot of time to work on the basics at home and to find the relaxation you both need, but you know that! Good luck.

[MHM]

@EmilyM

Not sure who, but someone suggested these bits are not allowed in the Hunter ring but I believe they are called hunter gags and they are allowed.

They are allowed, but some judges consider them to be unconventional and take a dim view of them.

I’ve also seen a version that has a very unobtrusive curb chain under the chin, but it does not look like a regular Kimberwicke, so it would be easy to miss if you were not paying close attention.

The hunter gags are usually pretty obvious by their action, even if you don’t see the horse’s head up close.

[bingbingbing]

I may have missed it, is he getting anything for his stomach?

[EmilyM]

I’ve never ridden on one. Is it at all like the pure gag? Or whatever you would call the other gag? Or does it act more like a three ring?

[wanderlust]

Just some random observations of your home video:

1: Through corners to the right off the diagonal, he motorcycles and falls in. In corners to the left, he tends to land right lead then looks like he is anxious about the upcoming swap.

2: He doesn’t look seriously unsound, but there is some unevenness behind. Sometimes it looks lh, mostly looks rh. If you haven’t, I’d have him worked up as that scooting and rushing and worrying about changes could be physical.

3: I don’t think your saddle is doing you any favors. Your leg is loose and in front of you and almost on his shoulder and you are trying to stay out of the backseat but that’s where you keep gravitating. IME that’s a saddle fit thing (either horse or rider) and not necessarily a rider failing.

[MHM]

It’s the same principle as a regular gag, but a little toned down with not as much leverage. It can be a pretty harsh bit, depending on the mouthpiece. And how it’s used, of course.

[Janet]

@MHM

Just be aware that if you’re at a USEF show, or a show that follows USEF rules, the halt can be counted as a refusal. Ditto for an additional circle on course.

Yes but worth it for the schooling experience. The scooting will also be penalized.

[CBoylen]

@cswoodlandfairy A whole giant thread later, I think I’m sticking to my suggestion to stick a rubber pelham on there, but not actually touch it. As many have pointed out, the horse is not at all heavy. You can probably eventually teach it to gallop right around while you do almost nothing up in your two point. It’s a hit a lick and stick to it type, once you teach it to balance in the corners.
(Which is ironic, because until I saw the videos I didn’t pay attention to what horse it was, and had I noticed prior to seeing the video I would have thought that tracked, since it’s sort of related to mine, who can be heavy. But, yours is not. )

[LazyA1]

I love this advice. Cute horse that just needs to relax into his canter.

Many a time I’ve stuck a rubber pelham on one and it’s as if they have some kind of revelation. This is a wonderful bit. https://www.trust-equestrian.com/product/inno-sense-baby-pelham-flexi-soft/?lang=en

[trubandloki]

@bingbingbing

I may have missed it, is he getting anything for his stomach?

.

@cswoodlandfairy

yep he always gets a round of gastroguard when he shows!

[Madison]

Another vote for it being a training/not quite ready to be cantering full courses at a show issue. I agree that you also need to look at how you are riding him at the show. Look at how you trot in - it is like you are on a mission. There is nothing relaxing about it. One like that might benefit from trotting in, going back to the walk, walking a minute to take a breath, then picking up a canter. It lets you take a deep breath and relax too. If you are going to keep showing, I’d do some schooling classes where you trot in, canter out, and trot your corners, because he’s got to learn to back himself up and slow down. Continuing to run him around anxiety-ridden show courses with a stronger bit isn’t going to help him relax, it will just make you feel like you have more control. He’s super cute with plenty of potential, you’ve just got to find a way to keep the slower relaxed canter he starts out with in your lesson video when you move on to jumping. Good luck!

[dags]

@wanderlust

3: I don’t think your saddle is doing you any favors. Your leg is loose and in front of you and almost on his shoulder and you are trying to stay out of the backseat but that’s where you keep gravitating. IME that’s a saddle fit thing (either horse or rider) and not necessarily a rider failing.

I hesitated to bring it up, because I’m not sure if it’s saddle fit or just That Saddle, but I have to agree, it’s not doing you any favors. At points your foot is actually swinging out in front of the girth, which is shoving your seat back towards the cantle. And something tells me this guy really does not want a lot of seat in the saddle or weight moving around on his back. He’d probably take quite well to two-point all the way around, but I’m not sure your saddle will even allow for that.

OP, I noticed this mostly in the at-home video. Even in the posting trot that saddles all “get down in me!” and not really letting you carry your own weight. Are you able to just barely brush the saddle with your seat in the downbeat of the post, with your core staying strong and not collapsing? Or do you feel like you’re constantly fighting gravity?

[fivestrideline]

I noticed it too! OP, I have a friend built exactly like you that had the same position and form. She was a very good rider, fit as anyone with a “real” job and life could be, etc. Her new horse didn’t fit the old saddle and she bought a new one - instant fix. Even our trainer didn’t realize how much the saddle was the problem!

I don’t think a new saddle will instantly fix the issues you’re seeing, but if might be worth exploring if it helps you stay off his back and not goose him forward!

[JBCool]

@cswoodlandfairy, Oh my gosh, I somehow missed the home video until now and I LOVE him even more!

[atr]

Do you think maybe you might be the one getting anxious at shows and transmitting it to him? I know I do this

[AskMyAccountant.17]

There is a drastic difference between the competition and at-home video. Particularly in your position. At home you’re leg is firm, your seat is deeper. This also allows your hand to be much softer. There are moments he becomes quick, but your position is more correct to adjust those moments more seamlessly. Rather in the competition video,you’re a bit more perched.

Now, he may get to a point strength wise where he can maintain the balance and rthym while you keep a soft 2-point off his back and throw the reins away. But, right now in his training your position is very critical.

[Night_Flight]

@fivestrideline

I don’t think a new saddle will instantly fix the issues you’re seeing, but if might be worth exploring if it helps you stay off his back and not goose him forward!

Or even maybe trying to put a spacer on the stirrup bars so that they hang slightly further back (something like the keepers for a full-cheek snaffle), just to get a feel for whether a change in the balance point might be beneficial.

[MHM]

@Night_Flight

a spacer on the stirrup bars so that they hang slightly further back

A what, now?

[findeight]

On a positive note, go back and watch the first couple of minutes of the at home video. It’s there, he’s got it, Hunter “frame”, nice level topline, reaching out for the bridle. He CAN do it. Keep looking at that comparing it to the over fences and even entering the ring at the show…thats what you need to work on. And he is capable just needs many more hours.