The Maestro has written another book

[TheDBYC]

I’ll buy that. And the truth is that all sport is constantly evolving. It has to or it will die. The essence of what is correct remains the same, yet the stuff that goes around that essence is constantly evolving & modernizing. Look at human sports at the elite levels. The athletes have gotten bigger, stronger, and more technical over the years as the the fields of sports medicine/conditioning & nutrition have advanced. I remember very politely sitting though a video of figure skater Sonja Henie my aunt brought once. I’m one who can see & appreciate the effort of an athlete even if I’m not familiar with the sport. Watching poor Sonja I quickly found myself thinking, “omg, is she actually going to do something!?!” The technical standards of figure skating have changed so much over the years. Even comparing Torval & Dean’s performances to modern pairs there is a huge difference.

I think dressage is similar. Watching the video of Dr. Klimke & Ahlerich it occurred to me that while the tenants of good dressage vs bad have not changed, there is much more emphasis on the flow in & out of movements nowadays. I realize the video was spliced, of course. I think you still get enough of the moments entering & exiting the movements to see. The top riders now are riding every stride. Whereas the top riders in the past were imo more relaxed about what came in between the movements & weren’t consciously riding every stride to the max.

I don’t think either way is right or wrong. I do think it is a natural evolution of the sport as we get further removed from the days of cavalry training. No horse or rider could’ve ridden every stride back then, nor would it have been expected or actually desirable.

[McGurk]

Great analysis and great video examples.

So interesting to see the difference since Klimke and Aherlich. I have to wonder if that would be a winning test with today’s emphasis on big, flashy movement.

[Scribbler]

I’ve seen a photo of Nuno from the 1920s when he was a lithe and gorgeous young bullfighter type guy on a dressage horse. The films are all from the 1950s showing middle age spread years and I’ve read he hated how he looked then. He’s clearly a rider who has enormous tact but has lost physicality. You still see this with older trainers especially in Western disciplines. A hard life catches up with them. I think top competitive English riders may now be putting more thought into diet and off the horse fitness to keep their posture up and weight down as they age.

[Paint_Party]

@gailbyrd

the seat and leg are MUCH more important than the reins when trainers like Nuno ride. Most of the horses reactions to Nuno are coming from seat and leg, not reins.

100% agree. Unfortunately, I think “someone” may not have grasped that concept.

[Mara]

Nor does he understand self-carriage.

[MojitoMare]

Iron Springs Farm became Metal Pond Farm in the book?!? That is hilarious.

[alicen]

@McGurk

So interesting to see the difference since Klimke and Aherlich. I have to wonder if that would be a winning test with today’s emphasis on big, flashy movement.

Curious. Did you consider Valegro a flashy movie?

[McGurk]

Flashier than Aherlich, not as flashy as Totilas and Salerno(sp?), Anky’s horse in the video above.

The thing I enjoy the most about Valegro is that he appears happy, like he enjoys his job.

[MorganSercu]

A well-written & researched article about Sonja Henie if you are interested.

The Glittering Rise and Fall of Sonja Henie, Ice Skating’s Original Queen

[Ambitious_Kate]

An interesting side thread started up about bogus trainers and the funny thing that occurs to me with all the stories in that other thread of bogus trainers gathering loyal followers who inexplicably keep on training and attracting ignorant clients, Nick Peronace, according to his own recent book, has apparently been completely unable to accomplish even that.

[skydy]

They don’t know how much they don’t know.

Obviously anyone who has any experience in Dressage, even as a spectator , can see that Peronace doesn’t know what he’s doing. That’s why he was only able to get away with his “clinics” when trying to teach beginners. Not anymore.

He doesn’t have a horse or a barn or the competition record of a Grand Prix trainer and his “students” if they exist, have no records either.

[Mara]

Valegro’s movement to me looks expressive but not exaggerated. His gaits look like those of a naturally athletic horse.

What stood out to me, watching that video of Salinero, is that the reach and animation in his hind legs didn’t come anywhere close to matching his front end.

I’m not a dressage person, so take my comments for whatever you deem them to be worth.

[Paint_Party]

@MojitoMare

Iron Springs Farm became Metal Pond Farm in the book?!? That is hilarious.

Even without the Magic Decoder Ring it didn’t take much to figure that one out.

If someone wants to be all cloak-and-daggery and obscure names, then obscure the friggin’ names! Don’t use synonyms! And stay away from the Thesaurus!

[skydy]

Just a thought for people who say “he might be OK to teach up/down lessons”. I beg to differ.

The basics of position and aids should not be taught to beginners by someone who rides with very poor position and has no comprehension of proper aids. The basics are important and it is difficult to undo the muscle memory of poor position, especially when it is one of the first things learned as a beginner.

NP is, to my mind, very unqualified to teach anyone anything to do with equitation or training horses and I would certainly not agree with him being an example for beginners.

[Fiesta01]

@Mara

What stood out to me, watching that video of Salinero, is that the reach and suspension in his hind legs didn’t come anywhere close to matching his front end.

I am a dressage person and totally agree. I remember vividly the first time I saw video of Totilas. My BO was enthusing about him, but I was not impressed. I still think that he never looked through and over his back. To me, the front end looked more like a “circus trick” - flashy, but not correct.
(Putting on my bullet-proof vest).

[FitzE]

Thank you! That was so interesting to watch those rides back to back to back.

I loved Charlotte’s. Here’s the most non-dressage savvy feedback you’ll ever hear: I was so impressed with how she was able to have her horses movements be exactly on beat with the music so often. I not seen anyone achieve that as well as she did in that video.

And I could see the difference with the third ride. I did not enjoy it as much, with the cranking tail and the behind the bit moments, as I did the first two, but especially Charlotte’s ride.

One thing that really struck me in Klimke’s ride was how he absolutely luxuriated in the halts. His first halt he stops, removes his hat, enjoys some me time, finally salutes, replaces his hat, adjusts his coat, I was waiting for him to prepare a quick cup of tea and check the papers, then he finally moves off. The horse stayed still and relaxed the whole time! Such a contrast to (i) anything I’ve ever achieved, and (ii) the third video. That initial halt seemed very rushed, like squeezing in the salute before the horse was over it and moving off again.

Not that I know which is correct or not, just that the difference was striking to me, a non-dressage person.

Another thing I thought: When people are good - really, demonstrably good - the reaction from most people, including the people here, is appreciation, praise, admiration, not jealousy. I see the same in all disciplines. People gush about Piggy, Beezie, etc. They don’t trash them. NP’s contention that people here and IRL attack him out of jealousy (or, more precisely, their “heads exploding from jealousy” ) simply isn’t borne out by people’s reactions to legitimately talented and successful riders and trainers. If anything, it can tip over into idolisation or cult of personality - the exact opposite of what NP describes. It just does not ring true and it is quite sad that he uses jealousy as an explanation for himself.

There is pretty obviously jealousy, though, from NP towards other riders. Did you all say he’s been particularly critical of Charlotte? Or was that DH? If so, I think he has been consumed by jealousy of other riders’/trainers’ talent and success and projects that reaction onto people who react to his inflated claims.

PS: those monikers for various farms and horses are laughably bad. Talk about cringe!

[Night_Flight]

@FitzE

There is pretty obviously jealousy, though, from NP towards other riders. Did you all say he’s been particularly critical of Charlotte?

Yes, with a particular focus on her hands. Presumably he feels that his hands-in-crotch technique is the more correct one.

[TheDBYC]

@Mara

What stood out to me, watching that video of Salinero, is that the reach and suspension in his hind legs didn’t come anywhere close to matching his front end.

I thought the same. He looks underdeveloped in the hind end & his hocks look…pointy? That probably makes no sense to anyone not living in my brain but not sure how else to describe it!

Watching that video, the biggest difference I see is that the top horses today possess a certain muscular elasticity. They maintain kinetic equilibrium no matter what the movement. The energy flows in all directions. For example, suppling & bending to the inside to make a circle, their inside side body doesn’t crumple or collapse or even stagnate. Instead, there’s active energetic engagement along the shortened side body as well as the lengthened.

I’m loathe to compare Ahlerich to Totilas or Valegro – different breeds & body types & it’s easy to chalk up any differences to them simply being bigger & stronger. However, there’s an 11yo emerging GP Hanovarian stallion at the barn with a lighter build similar to Ahlerich’s. I caught flashes of his schooling ride last night thru the arena door as we were getting our new guy settled into his digs. For one magical moment I glanced over to see them collect to a piaffe & then lengthen out to a working trot again. [ ] This stallion has that same kinetic elasticity as the Valegros & Totilas of the world, despite his lighter frame. ( He actually has trouble keeping weight on during the spring. A problem which I would love to have, dammit! ) And his free walk is this big, rich gait that manages to be relaxed & powerful at the same time. Dare I say, he almost flounces?

[J-Lu]

I agree, happy and correct.

I remember Anky’s horse Bonfire when she was campaigning him. He was a loose and bouncy horse at the time, esp compared to Isabelle Werth’s horses at the time, but he was incorrect in things like his piaffe. He’d swing his hips so the hind feet stepped into the same footprint rather that really sitting down behind. He also had flashy front legs but not much of an overstep in extended trot. He seemed to get more correct at age 15 or so. Don’t get me wrong, he was sound at top GP until 17 or 18, and that really says something about Anky’s riding and management. But he wasn’t really correct earlier in life although he earned high scores.

[trubandloki]

@skydy

Just a thought for people who say “he might be OK to teach up/down lessons”. I beg to differ.

This was the response I typed to you in the other thread where you said the same thing.

@trubandloki

Since my post [edit out the part that said - in the other thread - because the other thread is this thread] is one of the posts that mentioned something like this I want to clarify what my point was. It was not meant to say he’d be a good up/down instructor. I most certainly would never recommend someone like him to that person asking where to send their kid. My point over there was that if he had stayed in that market he would have most likely done fine business wise. He would have had an stream of people to teach (if he priced himself for that market) and ride for, who would have later learned that they could do better elsewhere. Just like this thread talks about.

I don’t think anyone thinks he would be a great instructor of anyone. I just think that is the market he could have made a living in if he wanted to make his living as a riding instructor, which it appears he did. Lots of crappy instructors make a living teaching beginners.