The "NO REINSTATEMENT" thread.

[xegeba]

Now you may say there are always options, but we all know that sometimes that is not true. there are those people who can not afford to have one put down, disposed of or buried due to finances etc- what do you tell them? Should they let it die and just rot? If they can’t afford to feed it, put it down do they just let it starve?

Personally? If I found myself in that situation… I would do whatever it took(beg, borrow,maybe even steal?) to make sure my animal died a dignified, painless (physical and emotional) death.

[VarsityHero4]

Originally posted by Snowbird:
Oh! my and how did you manage to find a keyboard without a shift key? If you look carefully there are two on every keyboard. One is next to Z and the other is next to the ?.

maybe you need to go back to school as well snowy. believe it or not the keys on a keyboard are removeable.

[BaliBandido]

Originally posted by Snowbird:
I do think there is a difference.

On one hand we have affluent people with a perfectly sound and sensible horse that is murdered just because they either don’t want to take a loss, don’t want the tax benefit for the loss or are afraid that someone else might be able to make the horse everything that was anticipated and perhaps come back to beat them. In this case there is a Federal crime of defrauding the insurance company and cruelty or abuse of an animal.

On the other hand you would probably have a horse which has not been saleable; that they can’t afford to support and no one will take it even for free. It is unlikely that it is either sound, sensible or useful.

Granted I would prefer to have the horse shot and then dispose of it but that’s expensive and maybe they really don’t have the money. That could be their food budget. And, it may be distasteful but it is not illegal.

Of course there is a difference, many differences, legality being just one of them. Also it is not only horses that are not saleable, useable or sound sent to slaughter. Many are healthy etc, and are sent there for many reasons.

When I said this

but these are two separate issues, equally horrifying, neither worse than the other, but different.

what I was trying to convey is in the situations where there may be no other options available to certain people in certain individual situations, I can understand the slaughter option. I can never understand the horse killing for insurance. These horses were killed for ego or to cover up the fact that they were not as good/sound as they were when a buyer was conned into paying mega bucks for them and they were killed before that became known. A CYA situation. No excuse- ever for that.

I was not comparing the two. I was merely stating that although there are people who feel both are very wrong and they are intitled to that opinion, to compare them is not really comparing apples to apples.

[Carol_Ames]

Good letter and , I would certainly sign !though I I do think it will require support from a //bnRT/T or sponser to make it effective.does anyone remember CarlnKnee? Has anyone contacted Equus about this?

[wanna_be]

jetsmom- yes, I did. I think there is a world of difference between PV judging a class while still under suspension, and having the suspension itself lifted. Also, while Paul himself stepped down from the position of judge due in part to peoples discomfort with the situation, I doubt he would do the same in this much grander one. I don’t think for him the importance of judging a class is paramount to that of being a part of competetive showjumping again; he will probably fight for this.

and war admiral you said, “I’m not fooling around. This is MY sport too, and yours as well. It’s never going to be perfect, we all know that; but it should NEVER be a sport where breaking a horse’s legs with a crowbar for money is seen by the NGB as O.K. I’ve got a horse sitting in my barn right now who would not be alive if these people had continued to roam unchecked.”

If the USEF does reinstate Paul, they are far from condoning what he did. If a person murders another person and gets out in 25 years, it is not because the government suddenly thinks its ok to kill people. maybe there were “interesting” conditions that surrounded the murder, or maybe they (government) simply doesn’t have the means to keep the murderer anymore. It is possible that the USEF reinstate Paul while still recognizing that what he did was wrong. Maybe they feel he learned his lesson, or that helping to turn numerous others in should count for something, or they may simply listen to the VOLUMES of people that will be helping him. I don’t know, I’m just saying the USEF as NGB is not neccessarily condoning Paul’s actions should they reinstate him. And as for the horse in your barn right now, I feel the need to clarify: everyone involved in the killings was hardly “roaming unchecked”. In fact, they were very systematic, hence the reason that horses actually died before they were stopped. I hardly think your personal horse was in danger.
For all of you that are anti-PV or anti-reinstatement for your horses sake and not just for the sake or argument, I think that is admirable. We should stand up for the wellbeing of all horses, because someone’s got to.

[big_dawg]

Originally posted by N&B&T:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by big dawg:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by Limerick:
To add to TWF’s post about lifetime bans in other sports-Ben Johnson, the Canadian sprinter, was banned for life for testing twice for illegal substances (steroids).

I think this reinstatement petition needs to let the USEF know that a ten year ban is not sufficient

And Eric Lamaze has been caught three times for cocaine, and he is still in the sport–once he was either going into or coming out of Australia, I think, to/from a competition. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

---

So, big dawg, do you think EL should or should not be banned by the Canadian Federation. He was barred from participating in the Olympics.
DISCLAIMER: POSTED WITH NO JUDGEMENT OF OR PERSONAL ANIMOSITY TOWARD ERIC LAMAZE, SIMPLY ASKING B.D.HIS OPINION. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No personal opinion…[Someone was throwing out names of folks who had been permanently banned from their sports for drug infractions, and I mentioned Eric because he had NOT been thrown out permanently–just getting the WHOLE message out.]

[Zanny]

In my experiences, hunters in flux were insured and we spent many a penny on x-rays to help the “sell”. And yes I’m talkin the 80-95 era, and yes some of the old timers have signed. The USEF knows, but like Snowbird and WarA we’ve seen it before. I am glad the internut has brought us all together alias or otherwise.

[Bumpkin]

http://chronicleforums.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/5566064631/m/306207948

Thank you “Saturday Night Live”, the red NO REINSTATEMENT bands came today.
I am going to try and get some worn to the WSHJA Year End Awards Banquet tomorrow night.

[Racetb_Aefvue_Farm_B]

AMEN.

[War_Admiral]

Keep crossposting!

We’re starting to get some good support from The Jockey Club and the Saddlebred/Morgan peeps. One lady who is a big show manager/trainer is printing out copies to take to ALL her year-end awards banquets (and believe me, that’s a lot of banquets, b/c she works in several USEF breeds and is active in all).

Anyplace, I just got your draft & will glance over in a few mins! Thank youuuuuuu!!!

[poltroon]

Originally posted by Snowbird:
Now you all know I really am aged. The reason it’s rare is most of those with four digits have ceased to participate for one reason or another. Well, it’s easy to remember anyway.

What exactly do I win? I never win anything.

I just think it’s cool is all. I’m a whippersnapper with a number from the early 80’s.

One of my affiliate assn numbers is 123457. The show secretaries used to always think I was really stupid and trying to fool them. Now I just have a xerox of all my cards and attach it.

[Duffy]

Jane, NO ONE has stated that he doesn’t have a right to re-apply. If that were the only issue, this thread would be a one-pager.

[Bumpkin]

Doesn’t it make you feel as though some of the fence sitting posters, think the posters who have signed are “the little people”.
I mean if they signed, they may be cold shouldered at the WEF cocktail parties.

Originally posted by Trakehner:

His little group of Barney, Lindemann and he killed horses for profit. They went to jail, he made a deal and got probation. What a guy.

The “self-important” people know what’s best for all of us and the horse world…those damn little people keep getting in the way as the moral pinhead who organzied the Palm Beach event quipped, “I think for the knowledgeable professional, it’s over…For the little guys out there, they’re not forgiving.” Hear that little guys? Get over it, your masters have spoken.

The other riding philosopher, Bronze medal winner Dello Joio (isn’t that a desert?) noted, “It takes a little bit of character on everybody’s part to forgive.” Such wisdom…such faith…So, if you don’t forgive, you’ve got no character. Listen to your betters.

GP rider Schuler Riley, who trained under Valliere also showed her moral backbone and ability to spin values, “I don’t respect what he did years ago.” Wow, she didn’t respect what a horse killer did for profit! Phew, I’d sure trust her wisdom.

Like a child molester who’s “paid his time in jail”, society gets to decide if they wish to have them in their midst. If you’re a Professional, you have the character to ignore evil if it’s done by one of your friends…

[War_Admiral]

Sorry Bumpkin, no, you can’t. But you can put down USEF as an organization you’re a member of, and just leave your number blank if you don’t want to provide it.

I would encourage people, though, to PLEASE put down your state/country of residence. We’re getting way too many sigs with just a name…

[ponybreeder]

YOU don’t know??!!! (she faints dead away )

[Snowbird]

If you have a prison and two guys manage to swim out of Alcatraz are you required then to let everyone else go free?

[Snowbird]

Boberry, Yes crimes against people. The most vicious crimes-someone guilty of being a pedophile. Snowbird mentioned someone admitting to shooting Helen Brach.

I was duly horrified when Joe Plemmons admitted that he was a part of the murder of Helen Brach. I heard his confession on Channel 7(ABC) in person and he was interviewed in front of his farm barn sign. The name of the farm eludes me at this point.

I wrote to John Long and explained that as CEO he had the authority to immediately suspend Mr. Plemmons from any presence at any horses show until there was a hearing. Mr. Plemmons said he was in Florida to sell horses but business was slow for him. Mr. Plemmons said that Helen Brach was delivered to him and a cohort in the trunk of a station wagon. She was supposed to be dead and she was still fighting to survive and moaned. Good citizen that Joe Plemmons is instead of calling for medical help he shot her twice in the head and then took her body to be incinerated.I am certain he did not refuse payment for his actions.

After several years of trying to make a difference I think that the problem is in this merger we went from a Members Association to an “elite Athlete” association. The AHSA started as a Horse Shows Association and then learned better and became a Members Association.

My suggestion is that copies of whatever you wish to send to USEF; be sent not to the media who will have a flash of news but accomplish nothing but to the USOC who is mandated by the Congress to manage all NGB Associations. The Congressional Committee authorized to investigate such things is the Commerce Committee. John McCain is on the Senate Commerce Committee and it might be a good idea to send a copy of all correspondence directly to him. If any of you are from Arizona then you should be the spokeman for these issues.

In 1978 the Congress created the USOC because they felt that the Educational Institutions that had been in charge of would be Olympians was not reaching down to the “grassroots”. If you want to read those papers they are in the
Gerald Ford Library.

One of the reasons for the new usAHSA is to provide a way for the “grassroots” of all disciplines and breeds to have a old fashioned co-operative with no officers just Leadership Councils and electronic communication to keep costs down. Here we can with this non-profit perhaps accomplish giving those of us who still believe this is a sport and not a money machine a chance to organize so we can accomplish good things for the “HORSE”.

Whichever route you choose I wish you good luck and I will keep up on the new website. We will also link to it from usAHSA.

[Boston_Chicken]

Originally posted by Coreene:
At this point, I think nothing short of the PR peeps who got the British to accept Camilla Parker Bowles would work.

Very likely, true dat

[CBoylen]

So as a member of such I would want to pass rules and regulations to prevent it or make sure people would not get away with it.

There are already rules and regulations to that effect.

[Silk]

Originally posted by anthem35:
There are many well respected individuals who are very active in the USEF horse show community who are by far the most well informed of the story, and who, by knowing all the facts, are welcoming him back.

As you and we all know, its to ‘each his own’.

Maybe not so well respected after saying that, though. I dont think most people’s opinion’s will change, regardless of which big names welcome him back. I think just the opposite: those big names will lose the respect of many who once respected them.

And yes, I agree: everyone is entitled to their opinions, and everyone has the right to honor and state their opinion without being harrassed and treated badly!

I hope Florida is treating you well, and I hope Teddy is doing well - fat and happy!