Anthem, I do not have my foot on PV’s neck, or anyone else’s, for that matter. I am against reinstatement. As an individual, I have a choice not to give him any business, directly or indirectly, as well as you have the ability to provide him business, which we both have always agreed upon. I know that you must also be aware of the fact that nothing your or I do is going to have much weight in the larger picture as either of us would like. No one on the USEF has called me and said “Hey Harry, should we let this guy in or not”, and I suspect you have not gotten that sort of call either. It should only be that simple for either of us.
There is nothing a committee can do, of which I am aware, to help a dead horse.
I have been reading more than posting on this thread. But this statement floored me. If you are on a horse welfare committee you would certainly look at past grievances and want them to never happen again. So as a member of such I would want to pass rules and regulations to prevent it or make sure people would not get away with it.
War Admiral, I’m with you.
I think that EACH time one of the people involved in truly egregious situations is up for reinstatement it’s a good thing to make one’s opinions known. Will they carry the day? We don’t know. But I DO know that I personally have strong feelings and believe it to be my obligation to my equine partner to make them known.
Let’s face facts, there will be some eloquent letters of support for PV, and others I’m sure, probably from some influential people. Yet, if enough of the much vaunted “grass roots” makes their small voices heard, the sound may carry enough to make a difference. Anyone remember the Dr. Seuss classic “Horton Hears a Who?” If the USEF truly wants to be for ALL riders, and wants to reach the grassroots as it says, well, this seems an ideal way to hear us peasants down here on the ground…
Originally posted by Snowbird:
We can’t allow mules to compete in Hunters and Jumpers because it would be demeaning if they won.
But they won’t win!
Originally posted by Yours Truly:
It is futile to discuss how we wish someone would feel. Remorse, regret, sorrow, guilt–these are feelings that come from within. Asking for an apology is similarly futile. The only genuine apology is one given of free will.
Your Truly-
I appreciate this, and welcome your ideas…
In what way would you offer an apology considering your audience?
A lifetime ban would be great. It should have already been done.
Only in your mind, I hardly think anyone ever feels bested. At any rate, living on the east coast, it is late. Have a sparkling evening everyone, and GOD BLESS PAUL VALLIERE!
I lost my sanity when I bought my first pony and got into this years ago.
good point. If we were sane, we wouldn’t have horses (or ponies!) 
Mueller was apparently another Sandman. Was he involved with AHSA and was he a Member?
Originally posted by xegeba:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>too busy busy with the hundred’s or I forgot the THOUSAND’s of clents (talk to Oxer about that one-((she’s in the next stall)), by the way email C. Boylen-she crashed the party). She hates hidden posters on this subject but I guess that is only when they do not befriend PV.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sleeping is the best thing for you to do xegeba, let PV do all the “dirty work” at night.
Originally posted by xegeba:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Of course, if the owner of horse Cakes out an ad giving “all the credit” to suspended person A, then horse C’s owner might be in violation for exhibiting “for the reputation” of suspended person A.
owners give ‘all the credit’ to anyone other than themselves? Thank You maybe… Does the rule prohibit appreciation? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I have no idea. But it is a POSSIBLE interpretation.
Originally posted by Seal Harbor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by big dawg:
I cannot believe you folks have this much free time on your hands to be doing someone’s else’s job…must be a lot of lefties living off your dad’s trust funds…
What a sexist thing to say… how do you know it’s not our Mother’s trust funds thank you very much. 
I’m sure there are many folks here who work as well.
On a more on topic note, what do you care what these people do with their time? Maybe they make time for important causes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
O.K., you are living off mommy’s dad’s $
Dear Dawg I am as far from a Yuppie as a human can be. That is your interpretation of the rules and not mine.
I do not think that using a proxy and a radio was compliance or demonstrated remorse for the damage to our industry and those horses who died. He didn’t even need the money it is not as if that was his only way to survive or the owners couldn’t afford the loss. Those horses could have found good homes at a lower level and made other people gratefully happy.
It could have been just as beneficial to write them off as a business loss.
Originally posted by N&B&T:
Janet and Chanda–I interpreted Snowbird’s remarks to apply to professionals, running a business, and not to private individuals.
I have no knowledge about the technical part of it all.
You are right about Snowy, if you read back she said that most of the horse owning population does not own a business. She was addressing those who run a a business.
Thank you for that wonderful new descriptive phrase…“she doesn’t have a shift button!” 
Originally posted by radio talk Aefvue Farms RCA:
Anthem, this is not meant to be inflamatory. When this went down we all waited. No one could believe he was involved. Kept thinking not Paul, he wouldn’t do this, never. Believed what we were being told was wrong, media hype kinda thing. But the facts, proved us all wrong. Which was devasting. He never formally made any type of apology to his friends or peers. That may have been the hardest thing for all of us.
I can absolutely appreciate this.
I know Paul NOW, and I wonder ‘how’?
While I am not asking for any compassion, please consider this…
Moving beyond the atrocities of the incident,
How must he have felt, letting down friends, family, clients, kids…???
I am sure this was NOT his finest hour.
The ovewhelming urge to crawl up and die until hell froze over would have been my first thought.
To face my peers would have been an impossible task.
In addition, I am certain that his counsel advised him to refrain from discussing this incident as is often the case.
If he were to offer a formal apology, would you accept it? Or would people continue to beat him down, and attack his effort.
Would YOU like an apology? If he offered YOU one, would you at least hear him out?
Duffy, I think the “beating a dead horse” was meant to be double entendre.
Originally posted by Racetb Aefvue Farm Ltd.:
X & Sheila…oh, forget it. Where’s my tinfoil hat?
I made mine last night, I shall make one for you, it shall have bling and a pointy top for better reception. I will send it through the wires to you.
My thoughts on the reinstatement have been said earlier- I think those who comitted these infractions should not be allowed back in the organization.
So with that being said, I do not think ‘honing’ in on this particular program is going to have the desired effect. This is to showcase some of the things that are good about our sport, to show young people in a competition setting, to showcase the animals and maybe along the way provide some interest and inspiration to the general public about a sport we are passionate about. To attach the reinstatement issue and the history leading up to it is certainly a detracting factor and those that see this program may never see the resolution- it is not likely to be broadcast to that audience. So then people are left to draw their own conclusions, that may not be a good thing.
I think it unfair to tarnish the accomplishments of those featured, let them be a positive influence and let them enjoy the rewards of their work. This issue will not be decided by a huge public outcry from those outside of the industry who see a t.v program, it will come from within the association. The powers that be will have to make decisions based on the standards they have set, what they feel the reprecussions will be etc. I think it would be a mistake to offend some of those people in this industry that may agree with no reinstatement and may actually have some clout and whose opinions may be heard louder than some of the rest of us by seeming to look a bit fanatical and take advantage of a situation that really has nothing to do with these issues.
Of course I think it is good to continue to argue against reinstatement and have never been one to shy away from a battle- but I have learned that in the zeal to make a point often you can lose some of the people that do support you just by taking it a step to far. There are, in my opinion better places, better times and better strategies to keep this on track. I think it is really important that we remain factual, fair and logical- you can be passionate about the issue but if you start flying off and insinuating your position in places where most think it innapropriate, you do run the risk of turning people of completely because you appear to be an unreasonable lunatic! The religious right has suffered this same fate! I would hate to have the good intentions of people actually hurt the cause in the long run.
Pick your battles well, where you are at an advantage.
