The "NO REINSTATEMENT" thread.

[VarsityHero4]

Originally posted by ise@ssl:
Actually I was lamenting that high schools are obviously NOT teaching proper writing skills! What a shame.

And as far as the age of this young woman - isn’t it somewhat frightening that she’s reached this point and doesn’t see the crime in killing one’s own horse for money? Or grasping the concept of perjury. She seems to validate it if anyone else has done it.

i didn’t say that you were trying to say that they were. YOU’RE the one that needs to learn how to read. i ADMIT that what he did was wrong. i admit it. i just don’t that that it’s your place to tell the usef what to do about it.

[Snowbird]

OK! let me try! A Real person like me would probably not be able to afford the insurance so if it wasn’t working out we’d sell it to whoever was willing to take it for whatever we could get without lying about it’s talent.

Now! on the other hand a big roller would buy it, discover it was not working for him and then take out insurance so he he could off it and get his money back knowing that otherwise it was too big a loss for him or maybe even make a big profit thinking it was at my expense… AND just maybe some trainer would get hold of the horse prove he was an idiot by beating him with his own horse. The latter being the most serious risk.

He might even have bought the same horse I sold thinking he knew better than me and then found out he was wrong.

[harryjohnson_Aefvue]

Maybe you can set up a Paypal Account also!!!

[radio_talk_Aefvue_Fa]

You really want to make this personal instead of sticking to the issue, don’t you anthem35. That is what that post was about. The issue, not a personal vendetta against PV. The issue being, if somehow we have lost it, is that many of us believe there should be no-reinstatement for these perpetrators. And that people have already slipped back into the sport. Thus we all need to be very aware when someone comes up for APPYING for re-instatement.

[Showponymom_Aefvue_M]

I am starting to think Big Dawg and Sheila H are one and the same.

[Yours_Truly]

Perhaps Jane needs to brush up on her joke recognition skills.

P.S. It’s only an alter if you use a different NAME.

[War_Admiral]

Picked up 126 more signatures today. Keep crossposting!

[Showponymom_Aefvue_M]

If I am just a “peasant member” of the USEF and I don’t have the right to voice my opinion AND have them respond in some way, then I wan’t my money back!

I believe the word was average which I believe is a step above peasant. LOL!!

I agree with Jetsmom. I like her wording. It is a slap in the face to all of us that try to do what is right and abide by the rules. He continues to show horses at rated shows by any means possible to him.

[War_Admiral]

Originally posted by Mardi:
Lori B - excellent post. You said it all.

Seconded!!!

This is probably also the right time to namecheck Lori B. for her amazing (to me, anway, given I can’t draw a straight line even with a mouse) design work on our behalf.

Check this out.

[xegeba]

and what if PV had run into huge money problems because his wife spent all the money on jewels and crack… and he had to send THE HORSE off to the slaughterhouse? and got a check for 150.55 ? Would that be O.K.?

[Snowbird]

At your service the link takes you to some lovely pictures of Aristocrat being shown as owned by Paul Valliere. With Shows at which it was shown. So this was not a one time thing at all.

I would say that posting these pictures proves the intention was definitely to the benefit and credit of a suspended person “trainer”. Shown by a Junior rider believing it was legally entered. If so this is a valid illustration of ways in which the spirit and intent of the rules is being evaded.

[harryjohnson_Aefvue]

Jumphigh, I have to apologize, I spoke with friends over the weekend who told me that the farm I had thought to be abandoned was indeed a working stable. The rest of the conversation about the operators hinted that perhaps they should be included in this thread, so I don’t feel as if I am hijacking. These are people local to that area, so they are probably not really aware of what goes on, they just felt they had seen excessive measures.

[anthem35]

Originally posted by harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens:
Anthem, there were thousands of people who helped out after the hurricanes. Many left their jobs, homes, families for extended periods of time. They were not encouraged to do so, they just felt compelled to go. That is human nature. I don’t feel that one person should be singled out and commended for their efforts, it is just something you do. Many people who for whatever reason could not go there to help, sent money, food, clothing. I do not think that the things I have done in the name of charity or compassion makes me a better person, or atones for any wrongs, it is just something that needs to get done. No one encourages me, I do it on my own.

Harry, this is what I am trying to say…

He did this ON HIS OWN.

The only reason I know is because he was gone for weeks… ( unfortunately right before New England Finals, but… )

Shade-Thank You, More than you know.

[radio_talk_Aefvue_Fa]

Can’t even think of a smart snappy answer. Truly sad place to be in. When you have no morals or ethics, then there is nothing left in society. Its the glue that keeps it together.

[ise]

Boston Chicken - you are kidding? correct? Do you really think they expected this tidal wave of protest? Against someone who’s been OBVIOUSLY fluttering on the edges for the past 10 years - the USEF puts blinkers on for some people.

The USEF won’t even see some violations in front of them so why would they be looking outside the line? There is clearly some sort of hierarchy to the policing of those who break the rules and if it involves some BN’s - it takes a horrendous situation like this one. And as you know it resulted from a FEDERAL insurance fraud investigation - not the USEF (or AHSA as it was back then).

[system]

Which could very well be any breeder in europe, where so many wb’s are so popular to purchase.

So…which would you deal with? The WB dealer in europe that may have a top of the line horse for sale and honestly tells you they cull the herd… or the person who has a conviction for Horse killing…and is probably going to get that horse from said european breeder even if you chose him?

[Equit8tor]

Just saw those too! Great job!

[Hopeful_Hunter]

a question…

If a legal entity - such as a corporation - paid both PV and OTHER TRAINERS, would the other trainers be in violation of the rules if they took students/horses to the ring who usually trained with PV?

I suspect it would NOT be illegal under any of the rules as I read them, and wonder if this might not be how everything is arranged. After all, if there is a holding company/corporation, PV could simply be a stockholder and/or employee, and anyone else could be, too. Could be a nifty way to keep it technically legal but still make a healthy living.

Just trying to understand how this works…

Anthem, perhaps you can share whether checks are made out to PV or to a different legal name?

EDITED TO FURTHER WONDER: If the legal entity did not come into existence until AFTER suspensions were handed down, would it be bound by any suspensions? Is there any rule to prevent hiring PV (I can’t imagine there is) as long as he’s not participating in rated shows? And is there any rule that would prevent that entity from hiring a trainer in good standing and allowing THAT person to handle PV’s regular horses/clients in the ring? After all, both PV and the other trainer would be working for the benefit/credit/etc OF THE LEGAL ENTITY, not of PV per se.

[SGray]

most of the individuals suspended for fraud had horse businesses

[Boston_Chicken]

ise - no, I wasn’t kidding. I was asking a question.

Forgive me if I am not as well-schooled at the ins and outs of this debate as the regulars here.

Perhaps this “movement” would have more people who are on the fence swayed if it would entertain questions from those who genuinely want to understand the situation better.