The "NO REINSTATEMENT" thread.

Originally posted by Snowbird:
The Federation does not exist except for the members. So if the members get cranky and call the Attorney General of New York they might enforce a lot of rules pertinent to a New York Non-Profit where no one is supposed to do anything for profit in either money or prestige. This is an educational charity. Supporting only the High Performance folks who can afford the expense might not be what New York had in mind when the IRS granted USEF a non-profit status.

You see you really can’t have it both ways. You can’t say no one who isn’t rich can afford to be competitive and then claim to be a charity.

And, if they lose their non-profit status they can’t be an NGB so we’re all back to square one. You never know when someone will play the “Go to Jail” card.

If the members are the ones running it, what do you need all these petitions for?

Khamian Farms, thanks for your support & I’m sorry, it doesn’t work with the AOL browser. Log onto AOL, then minimize the AOL browser and fire up Firefox or Internet Exploiter; you should be able to sign it then! If not, please post again here!

Yes, harry, but would she say “my mind is a sieve” when she’d forget something?

This thread focuses on PV because he is the next one permitted to apply for reinstement.

No more, no less.

I can assure you that when BW is close to his “apply for reinstatement” date, discussion will focus on him.

Thanks Snowbird. I was hoping to find a shirt with the names of the horses on the back, but I think I’ll just get the tote bag too. This might be a little off topic, but I am a little nerve wracked about how to answer the inevitable “So what does that “no re-instatement” mean on your shirt/bag??”. There is so much to it, not even sure how to answer.

Please count me in on the petition.

A donation to the ASPCA in honor of the horses who were killed during these scandals would be nice. I lent out my copy of “Hot Blood” years ago, and never got it back, so I don’t remember all of the names - can anyone refresh my memory?

Rub the Lamp
Belgium Waffle
Rainman
Roseau Platiere
Empire
Charisma

Originally posted by slainte!:
Also, on this petition I would love for each person to mention if they personally know each “horse killer” or not. Would be interesting!

Well, I for one think they are absolute princes - the epitome of human civilization, the pinnacles of integrity and honor, that which us mere “average” horsepeople shall endeavor to become… Someone mentioned Ted Bundy, and I think that’s an appropriate fit. All the charm and “class” in the world do not, under any circumstances imaginable or un-, make up for such atrocities.

Hitler, too, was CHARISMAtic and beloved by millions for his passion and eloquence. He even had an oustanding military record and was a decorated war hero and a respected politician. Then he ordered the deaths of over 6 million people. Really, though, it was just a mistake!! He totally feels bad, and were he still alive he’d be setting up charities all over the world for the families of those whose lives he destroyed. Now THAT is class.

(Wait, did she just compare the horse killers to HITLER?!) You better damn well believe I did. The one quality Hitler has in his favor over these “people” is that at least he believed what he was doing was right.

I don’t honestly know what’s worse - the people that actually did the crimes, or the people who support them and publicly associate with them. (There, I said it.) Shame. On. You. There’s no amount of money you could PAY me to sink to that despicable level. What’s the phrase that keeps popping up over the BB? Let your money do the talking. Oddly, if a brand or a tack shop or a trailer company acts unprofessionally and screws someone over, how many people here refuse to buy their product? Yet if a ‘professional’ commmits heinous crimes against the industry, the animals, the competitors, the insurance companies, the sport itself… then it’s a forgiveable mistake.

Wasn’t there just a thread about a BB member who may or may not have tried to sell a giveaway horse? Remember how many people publicly ostricised her and spread the word about how they’d never do any sort of business with her? She admitted her error and rectified the situation, and was forgiven. THAT is a mistake. She didn’t try to harm anyone, and she genuinely felt remorse at her carelessness. THAT is forgiveable. The acts that the horse muderers did is so infinitely worse that there IS no forgiveness. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive, an idiot, or a potential accomplice.

Hmm… this all sounds quite harsh. I almost am sorry, because I don’t generally like to make assumptions about others. However, I’m practicing a ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY. The thing I really can’t figure out is that $25k or even $250k is NOT that much money. I’m lower middle class and my house is worth far more. (For what it’s worth, I’d never kill or hire anyone to kill any animal (even a fish) to ‘save’ my house, because of the basic principle and morality of the act) Hell, to some of the wealthy elite I know, that is just pocket change. So here’s the question - if the horse murderers were willing to order the deaths of innocent animals to recoup a few pennies, what do you think they’d do for more $$? For those of you that train with these ‘people,’ what if someone offered them a commission to take you and/or your horse out of the game? Hey, hopefully nothing, because these are classy people who’ve proved their devotion to their clients and their horses many times over.

Let’s put a new addendum up for consideration.

Do we want to include other criminal elements in our campaign? Such as someone who confessed to killing a horse owner? Or was convicted of killing a barn manager? or someone who has been convicted of fraud in horse sales? Where do we want to put the line in the sand?

What about multiple charges of having a horse found positive for the use of drugs on horses?

To me, their “friends” and clients should be the ones maddest at them, and least forgiving.

To the rest of us, it is a general assault on the horse world’s credibility, and the knowledge that these people deep down are the kind of people that truly don’t care about the animals that make them their living. You don’t LEARN to care. You either have it in you, or not.

To their clients and business associates, it was a personal deceit - kind of like if you found out your husband had raped your best friend. I bet you wouldn’t let him around your friends again, and surely divorce would be high on the menu… ya think? After he got out for the rape, I’m not thinkin you would let him give any of your friends rides from the airport - ever again, in your lifetime - no matter if they “paid the price”, or seemed a nice guy.

scout33, odd as it may seem, that’s exactly what I am saying. For example there was no uproar about Nancy Banfield because no one knew she had reapplied. Had I known, I would have raised a stink.

Go back and look for yourself. It’s incredibly easy to track. Each post has a date on it so you can lay out the entire progression of the threads.

It started with the Genesis Farm thread.

hey, I have a great idea…Why don’t we get all those homeless New Orleans folks to come protest in front of the PB Courthouse? They’ve got nothing else to do, and many have been sent to the cold parts of the country…PB County in January? Gotta love it.

YT these are not goofy what so ever!!
To the best of my knowledge here are your answers: 1) yes and yes. 2) yes they do monitor it, but each case has to be looked at individually. So far this is not posted on their web site. Excellent thought tho. 3) do not know. Comments may be submitted on liscensing of officials whose names are in the magazine. But haven’t seen anything concerning re-instatement.

Originally posted by harryjohnson:
Congratulations on your article, WA, I found the Mason comment interesting in that even he said it was the letter of the law that was complied with. He might as well have added “but not the spirit”.

Thanks, Harry, but I don’t really think of it as “my” article… It’s everybody’s article. I’m just glad to see that the issue is getting back out on the table for discussion in public, the same way it’s been under discussion in here for all these years.

War Admiral- love the idea of a trophy sponsorship!

I just found this thread this weekend and actually took the time to read it all. I have signed the petition and forwarded it to horsepeople that may not know about pending allowance for reapplication, for which I believe is not in the best interest of the USEF.
It was well written and though they may or may not sign it, I just wanted to let them know.
Knowledge is power.

Oh for crying out loud, must you people piss in every pot?

wow, I am not sure I understand what you mean. Do you mean that if bad people do bad things no one should talk about it?

Originally posted by Boston Chicken:
Call me crazy but I am thinking that this greenie may be very close to the situation currently being discussed…

yeah…PV himself got himself an account the day Oxer showed him the thread. He does have the right to respond, of course, but I take offense at the abortion issue.

Now, my opinioin of PV is quite ambivelant. I have had contact with him,; he was quite charming and lovely (kind, complementary, etc). He cared about my horse, yada…yada…

I would take lessons with him,perhaps (i did once). I do not think he should be reinstated (the two are very different issues)

I do not forgive him for what he did, nor will I ever forget. I have always had the same issue with trainers - horses are definitely a commodity. They have to be in order for business to succeed. I dont like the horse world and I dont like trainers as a breed. I am not even that hot on the whole horse show thing becasue of this. But I digress…my point was that I do think Big Dawg is PV (or maybe Goldy)

It used to be better Race. You know people could wander thru out the stabling area, talk to trainers find out where barns were located. Talk about lessons, etc. Now its closed door. Certainly hasn’t helped in the PR dept one bit.

at Snowbird

It’s difficult to discern the Clinton “cool-aid drinkers” from the Valliere supporters on this thread…

His little group of Barney, Lindemann and he killed horses for profit. They went to jail, he made a deal and got probation. What a guy.

The “self-important” people know what’s best for all of us and the horse world…those damn little people keep getting in the way as the moral pinhead who organzied the Palm Beach event quipped, “I think for the knowledgeable professional, it’s over…For the little guys out there, they’re not forgiving.” Hear that little guys? Get over it, your masters have spoken.

The other riding philosopher, Bronze medal winner Dello Joio (isn’t that a desert?) noted, “It takes a little bit of character on everybody’s part to forgive.” Such wisdom…such faith…So, if you don’t forgive, you’ve got no character. Listen to your betters.

GP rider Schuler Riley, who trained under Valliere also showed her moral backbone and ability to spin values, “I don’t respect what he did years ago.” Wow, she didn’t respect what a horse killer did for profit! Phew, I’d sure trust her wisdom.

Like a child molester who’s “paid his time in jail”, society gets to decide if they wish to have them in their midst. If you’re a Professional, you have the character to ignore evil if it’s done by one of your friends…