The "NO REINSTATEMENT" thread.

[lyrical]

Very few things in life are black and white judgement calls. Few of us are privy to all the information associated with the actions of another person. From where I stand, what ever circumstances led to PV being in a position where the only way out he could see, was to kill a horse, were brought about as a result of previous bad decisions he made. And for those decisions which ultimately led to killing a horse for insurance money, there are, and should be, consequences.

I don’t know PV, so the decision to sign was a lot easier for me than for some others. If I knew him personally, and felt what he did was way out of character, or there were extenuating circumstances, who knows how I’d feel about the re-instatement issue. So I do not agree with those who can forgive and forget, but I don’t think they are “bad” to feel the way they do. Hell, if I can “forgive” those who voted for GW, I can “forgive” those who don’t want to sign the petition.

The mob mentality that sometimes overtakes otherwise intelligent people on the BB, is frightening to see, however. I’m glad we can take a collective breath, and start thinking before we speak once again.

[Yours_Truly]

How would you, In his position, make a public apology that would reach everyone?
A letter to the Chron?
A public forum?
Its just not possible to personally reach every horseperson.
Please, I ask in sincerity…as someone who has been offended, what would it take to offer an apology?

As I said, I would never ask someone for an apology. But if he wanted to apologize to every horseperson, he could figure out a way to do it. (Starting with your examples.) Would it help? Who knows? That’s the thing about apologies. They don’t come with expectations.

[Jane]

Originally posted by SGray:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by SGray:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by Jane:
Harry, now you’re getting dramatic. I have not read any posts, especially recently, that stated PV should be reinstated. What I read were people defending PV’s right to reapply, SHOULD HE DECIDES to even go there, as well as those who know him challenging the alligations that he’s been breaking rules, nothing more.

surely the thread about the folks (I’ll go look for it to get the names) that are going to work for PV would indicate that a) PV is planning on applying for reinstatement soon and b) the soon-to-be employees are assuming that he will be reinstated - otherwise, under the rules that went in to effect in Dec. '05 these folks would not be able to go to rated shows while working for PV (or am I misreading the rules?) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the name that I was looking for is David Olynik from this thread back in November </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe you’re reading the rules correctly, if you’re referring to GR704. According to that rule, if David Olynik is indeed working FOR P.V., then it would indeed be a violation.

[radio_talk_Aefvue_Fa]

If you have gotten nasty emails from this board, then you need to forward them to Erin. The BB has rules, which I know Erin has stated to all of us. She will handle that.

[filly3]

The perfect “cure” for ego and greed is simple…a lifetime ban.

[Snowbird]

TL the line is very clear and unwaivering. Those who have been convicted or confessed to killing horses to benefir themselves or their clients financially.

The 2nd level is those who have defrauded horse owners of their right to be paid what their horses were sold for less a reaonable commission. Many of these horses wound up in horrible condition and some have not yet been found. Those convicted by a court and who have a court order prohibiting them from further engagement in this sport at least during te years of their parole should also be banned for life. These are not undefinable these are people who have been convicted and confessed their guilt in a Court of Law. The USEF has no right to refuse to enforse this court order. It does have the proved right to keep unsavory people out of this sport.

The line is a conviction in a court of law. I am personally offended that someone convicted and sitting in jail can be listed as a Member in Good Standing. If our predessers were derelict in their responsibilities it is no excuse for us not to try and fix it for the future.

[Showponymom_Aefvue_M]

Janet, exactly! Everyone is saying I train with him and there is nothing we can do about that and it is their right. But who is taking them to the shows and schooling them and signing paperwork? Are they saying that they are their own trainer?

You can thank anyone you want and give them credit . That is the beauty of free speech in our country.

[Sherry]

Originally posted by mwe:
pony breeder aefvue Pig Farm…thank you.

Showponymom…didn’t say it makes it okay…it was acceptable at the time…times do change
Do we list every person that has sent a horse to slaughter on this non-reinstatement list???

Pine Tree: I read through posts…many people said they read posts, are not involved in horse shows…

Show Mom- I di dpony club, 4-H fox hunted, showed at all local levels, judge at benefit shows as well as A shows,I have shown at the biggest, I am on an USEF commitee.

if

Acceptable at the time??? What “they” did was NEVER acceptable. I don’t care what time it was.

[SGray]

Originally posted by ss3777:
… Ok class, today we are going to learn how to go to jail, or even better how to reduce your sentence.

an elective course

[Sheila_H]

OK well I’m pretty sure I already knew insurance companies are not among those who tolerate insurance fraud. I also already knew that everyone just cares about money. So what is your point?

[Coreene]

Pssst, Dawg, let me let you in on a secret: this is not a chat room.

So when you said:

sorry, am not used to these chat room rules and etiquette, etc. this is new for me and i am doing some research for an article i am writing. i was warned about these chat rooms and am finding maybe the warnings were correct. seems there is not much room for differing points of view.

…on January 9, had you not figured out anything since you first began posting in mid December?

[SmileGee]

I also searched for these horses and was unable to find any information at all on any of them except for on this forum.

[VirginiaBred]

We can’t undo history. But we can keep people from slipping thru the cracks back into the sport.

Well said radio.
Rehabilitation is abstract. Every individual rehabilitates differently, some more throughly than others.
When you kill an innocent, beautiful, trusting animal for selfish greed, how do you get rehabilitated for that? Those are life lessons that are learned from birth. These people didn’t learn them. In this case, you can’t teach an old dog new tricks.

[Erin]

Y’all can ignore meadowlark… turns out it was just big dawg, who already got banned once and decided to come back under a new name. Not a very good move…

Nothing to see here, please move along.

[TWF]

Pete Rose & Tanya Harding were banned from their sports for LIFE!

Barney Ward…NY Supreme Court Justice Braun’s decision permanently bars Ward from attending AHSA-recognized competitions as a participant or spectator. He noted that Ward had pleaded guilty in March 1996 to the insurance-fraud charges, admitting he arranged for Tommy Burns to electrocute George Lindemann’s hunter Charisma and three other horses before he threatened to kill Burns if he told anyone. Justice Braun called these “most reprehensible actions.”

Justice Braun wrote that the AHSA “has the right to keep unsavory people away from the horse shows that it oversees, even if only to prevent the appearance of impropriety.”

He added that the AHSA “issued an appropriate penalty that, contrary to [Ward’s] contention, was not disproportionate to penalties issued against others” and that the AHSA is “certainly justified in avoiding actual or potential harm to its events, members and reputation, not to mention the horses, by having [Ward] barred from those events.”

Ward “should have considered the consequences of his actions before he put himself in the position in which he is now.”

Fraud and killing helpless horses ranks far beyond Pete and Tanya’s actions.

[anthem35]

Originally posted by Snowbird:
anthem 35 for exactly the same reasons that you opt to discredit us for our choices in many malicious and manipulative ways.

I have in NOW way discredited anyone.

I have continued to respect YOUR choice to not train with Paul.

I have merely asked that you stop throwing stones for one second and LISTEN.

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

What I would like to hear from PV…

1. apology for what he did
2. why it was wrong
3. acknowledgement of the pain he has caused all involved in this industry
4. a statement that although he believes he has much to offer the industry, he knows that his presence is causing continued pain, and conflict, so therefore he is moving away from the horse world, and will earn his living with a different industry.

[anthem35]

Originally posted by Riggs:
Janet, in response to your response to my post -the fact that each person will be judged on their particular merit does not have anything to do with my point.
Can we not discuss what the rules of merit might be/should be? How we feel about reinstatement without always, ALWAYS coming back to one particular person?

Anthem, you keep making the same point over and over again. We get your point. WE GET IT! The fact that some may not agree with it, does not mean they dont understand it. Can we move on now?

WOW. That was completely uncalled for…

You have 3,000 people here on this board supporting the No-Reinstatement petition,and you single ONE opposer fighting a lonely battle.

[radio_talk_Aefvue_Fa]

That is a very interesting point WA. Many who posted, stated that their steeds are housed with him, and everything is hunky dory. That they don’t worry about the welfare of their horses…

Did find information on line, that BW is banned for life. Permanent barring from horse shows and equestrian activities.

[harryjohnson_Aefvue]

I do not have any good contacts at the press, but seeing as WEF is going on now, and the Palm Beach paper has covered the topic before…