Ouch Snowbird!!! Now I admit to being a chauvinistic sort, and am wondering if that is directed to all of us xy chromosone types.
Point taken, HJ… I think it’s mostly people outside the show world who are shocked and outraged that anyone would consider doing business with someone like PV. People inside the show world are probably not shocked and outraged by much these days. 
I have seen posts from people here who have worked with PV and have found it very beneficial, even if they were uneasy about it in the beginning. I don’t mean to imply that I think those customers are horribly wrong and devoid of morals or anything like that. Personally, I don’t know if I’d want to do it myself, but it’s hard to say.
I was mostly just making an observation that a lot of people have posted here in the past and been extremely offended that anyone would continue to work with PV.
meadowlark if you only look at them and what they need and deserve you could be right. The biggest social problem today is “me-ism”.
However, if you look at what is in the best interests of our sport and our industry, and those young trainers and the children who may become trainers it is a disastrous premise.
For the sake of the future I think they should be prepared to make the sacrifices that their horses made for ego and greed. Not death of course but if they really have remorse then they should be able to see what a horrid example it is for someone so talented and intelligent to have resorted to a quick fix.
The better the horseman, the more talented and dedicated multiplies the effects of the damage done by maybe 100 x or even a 1000 x.
When you have been gifted that much you owe back to the those less fortunate. That doesn’t mean writing a check to clear your conscience.
The equation will balance out as if then those less talented and less able to be successful can do even more and worse things to satisfy their own needs with more quick fixes.
Originally posted by big dawg:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by Showponymom:
I agree and to say all hunters are on drugs is wrong. I for one do not drug my horses or ponies when showing. I have not replied to any of your retoric (sp) on this or any of the other treads. We can disagree with people but there is no need to attack.
so you do admit giving them drugs when not showing, or do i misunderstand your statement? i know quite a few big time hunter trainers and those horses are like crack addicts…personally i think the drug rules are too loose and need to be drastically tightened–this is pure animal abuse in its strictest sense. this is not meant as an attack against you or any other responsible show person, but it is pervasive in the industry and you should at least be able to admit that without feeling any personal threat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You most certainly misunderstood, I don’t drug my horses period. I take offense to anyone being lumped into your rhetoric about drugging. Unless you see someone personally give the drugs, then don’t lump everyone that shows into that catagory. Sure some people do it, but it is a small percentage. There are some really good horses out there that aren’t as you put it “crack addits”.
Originally posted by Snowbird:
OK! let me try! A Real person like me would probably not be able to afford the insurance so if it wasn’t working out we’d sell it to whoever was willing to take it for whatever we could get without lying about it’s talent.
Now! on the other hand a big roller would buy it, discover it was not working for him and then take out insurance so he he could off it and get his money back knowing that otherwise it was too big a loss for him or maybe even make a big profit thinking it was at my expense… AND just maybe some trainer would get hold of the horse prove he was an idiot by beating him with his own horse. The latter being the most serious risk.
He might even have bought the same horse I sold thinking he knew better than me and then found out he was wrong.
And, sometimes it’s simpler than that…someone could buy a horse only to find out the horse doesn’t perform as well for him, then said person gets injured, isn’t able to ride for a while, have someone else show the horse, only to find out the horse starts winning again…then ego kicks in before greed.
Harry you’re not alone! We all agree with you. Someone has to defend those horses who have already died for no reason except vanity and greed or simple PRIDE.
There has not yet been one good reason why that horse had to die. AND, we only know about one for sure because that brought a conviction.
Also, before I get drawn and quartered … my name is not on the petition because I can’t get my ancient computer to work right to get to the %$#&^% petition … can’t see the signatures, can’t sign in, can’t do 'nuttin! 
As soon as I get to my husband’s computer with all the new bells and whistles, it will be on it.
That’s AWESOME, SNL!!!
Thank you!!!
Well, as much as I feel like a salmon swimming upstream, I have enjoyed our ‘discussion’.
See, we CAN all politely disagree.
And as I continually say, everyone is entitled to THEIR opinion based on FACTS,and I will most certainly respect that.
But, its late and I am beat.
I wish you all well, and good night.
Originally posted by Janet:…When someone applies for parole, MANY things are taken into consideration (not just whether or not he has violated the terms of the original sentence). This often includes testimony by the victims, and other members of the community. This typically includes some people supporting parole, and others opposed to granting parole. Parole can be denied, even if he has been a model prisoner, and complied will all the terms of the original sentence…
yep - Charles Manson has had several parole hearings - hasn’t been let out yet though
The IQ arguments are cracking me up.
We do know that Einstein on then standardized testing had a 165 IQ. On today’s testing scales (an actual IQ score is a mean average of multiple tests at different ages) Einstein would have been either a 160-170…so his “old time” IQ score stands at 165.
IQ tests are administered like this:
The WISC and KABC test are administered between the ages of 2-10 depending on test. One is more involved than the other, both test different areas and functions.
The comes the CAS which is based on finding a mean average in the early developmental ages of late single digits to mid to late teens.
If the CAS comes in at 110 or above, then the person has a choice of the CTONI or UNIT test. One relies heavily on verbal understanding and skills and the other on written.
The last is the SBIS, the most comprehensive and starts exploring spatial intelligence and cognitive leaps. Usually only children who’ve passed the WISC with high scores do well on this one, the WISC is considered much harder and involved than the KABC, which is usually only used as general grade type testing.
The WJIII is the “normally” given school test in the teenage years as a basic all around type IQ generator…it gives a rough idea of IQ scores if the person had gone through the entire IQ testing process…but it’s a simpler format. This is the standard test those who used to work in school and “guess” a child’s future career would use. It will give an idea of someone with above average intelligence but in no way shows a genius capability.
50% of the people in this country test at 90-110, 100 being an average intelligence. 115 to 130 is considered above average to enhanced knowledge/learning capabilities and 130 to 145 is superior intelligence. 145 to 165 is genius or above genius IQ.
However…IQ does not denote actual intelligence as it does point to someone’s capabilities if applied and taught in a way to enhance their natural talents. Many get higher than average IQ scores simply from being eidetic. (total recall or a "photographic memory) This doesn’t always equate spacial intelligence.
(and BTW, there’s no such thing as “legal” testing for IQ’s. It’s a process, not a single test and you can’t take illegal or legal ones. Only recognized and unrecognized ones)
Oh come on BAC don’t you know it’s only us little guys that can’t move on from this…I mean after all the BNT’s & BNR’s have moved on…I can’t believe how disgusted I still am by all of this. How can someone just move on and forget about what they all did. Not just to the horses but to our sport…oh that’s right I"m one of the little people so I don’t count.
cat piss is responsible for most, if not all of my posting problems.
I am the “wayward soul” who made the comment that closed the “OTHER” thread. I extend my apologies to those who were hurt by what I said, and assure you it was not intended to be hurtful or to make light of a terrible moment, but an observation as to how I would feel in that situation. I would hope that the bad timing and taste that I had shown would not keep someone from signing a petition with as much importance as the No Reinstatement petition based on a reactionary comment from me, and I would also hope that people who had no intention of signing not use my comment as their reason for not signing. If you honestly feel that his contribution either as a friend, or a horseman, or a peer are so great that the truths of the past should be ignored, fine, support him with your own thoughts and actions. Again, I am sorry and remorseful for any pain caused by my comment, even though such pain was unintentional. If it is convenient to use my words as partial justification for his reinstatement, there is obviously nothing I can do about it.
Well, Chanda since many of the rules of the USEF actually state the term illegal, one would believe that it does. And in case we should forget:
THE SPORTSMAN’S CHARTER
That sport is something done for the fun of doing it and that it ceases to be sport when it becomes a business only, something done for what there is in it;
That amateurism is something of the heart and spirit - not a matter of exact technical qualifications;
That good manners of sport are fundamentally important;
That the code must be strictly upheld;
That the whole structure of sport is not only preserved from the absurdity of undue importance, but is justified by a kind of romance which animates it, and by the positive virtues of courage, patience, good temper, and unselfishness which are demanded by the code;
That the exploitation of sport for profit alone kills the spirit and retains only the husk and semblance of the thing;
That the qualities of frankness, courage, and sincerity which mark the good sportsman in private life shall mark the discussions of his interests at a competition.
These are powerful words. And something, no one should ever forget!
Fine… be that way. Spew and Run.
I have been showing my whole life. Granted, not H/J, but I have been at all levels of showing in Morgans, QHs, and Paint. I never knew anything like this to be “just done”. We “did” a lot of drinking in the arena after the Morgan shows, but we “didn’t” kill our horses who didn’t place well for insurance money.
Originally posted by JuniorJumper01:
It peeves me that those of you who have not met Paul nor know of what he does when the media isn’t all over him can come on here, also unidentified, and say that he hasn’t done anything for the benefit of the horse community. Consider that when you wonder why he’s afraid to talk to the public…
I don’t think being afraid has anything to do with it! Why would he be afriad to apologize for something he admitted doing? I think his lawyers have probably told him to keep his mouth shut in public until after the reinstatement hearing.
Originally posted by RacetbAefvue FarmBiziz Ltd.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>How on earth did that go down so quietly?
Good question, Bali. She was a real treat…and is happily, and with seeming impunity,back at the horse shows. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Since I am not familiar with her so much, is she a trainer? With clients and horses at the shows competing? I wonder if she has recieved any flak or if people just look the other way. I would feel very uncomfortable in the company of any of these people.
Since there are so many people who are opposed to the reinstatment of these people I wonder if it is just a matter of time before there is some type of altercation or protest.
Wow sheila… firstly its a sad thing to say that horse killing and insurrance fruad are tolerated in the industry…so what if they are??? Maybe it’s time for us to take a stand and say ENOUGH! It’s NOT ok! Horse killing and insurrance fraud should NOT be tolerated in any way and if it is… we should stop it.
