Well said Bali, well said!
That’s baiting the trap xegeba! Of Course I’m not saying that PV never sold a horse that didn’t work out. I gather from the skuttle but this was his own money!
Most horse traders lie about the horses for sale which is why it is still a capital offense to sell a crooked horse and get caught. That’s can be the “death penalty” if anyone chooses to enforce the law still on the books.
We’re concerned only with the horse he admitted to have had murdered. We’re not dealing in suppositions or maybe or never or every time. Hey! I’m not in his head only in what he admitted. I only know what he was convicted for doing and he confessed he did. That’s enough for me to say he shouldn’t be dealing horses or showing horses or training horses. He lost that right when he made the decision he made and confessed to what he confessed and wore a wire to catch the other guys to save his own neck.
I see no remorse! I see a man bending and stretching the rules still thinking he’s above the rules we all have to live by. He and all 23 convicted and I’d throw in Joe Plemmons who admitted voluntarily that he shor Helen Brach in the head twice and then disposed of her body. I even have room for Joshua Cardine and Ken Berlin on my list of unacceptable in my horse world.
I might not mind having dinner with them or chatting but they don’t belong on the show grounds of our NGB; our US Equestrian Federation sanctioned shows.I’d even help them find work in some other business.
No, xegeba, that is not what I am saying, what I am saying is the Mr. Valliere damn well ought to take excellent care of the horses in his care, he certainly charges enough to do so. He also should have taken care of the horse he chose to electrocute, he was making enough profit ten years ago where he did not need to off a horse for the insurance money.
Well as to the orders for the bracelets. I have been struggling with pay Pal trying to figure out how it works so I can include it a method of payment and donations.
I apologize for my inadequacy but please know that because I remember when there was only one channel and TV was only on two hours a week that at that point the computer was not even yet a good idea.
I am struggling and if they could let a program last more then 6 months because they change it I might have a shot.
I can accept credit cards and checks. If you want to call, fax or email to me privately I would be delighted to send you bracelets. I just received and order of envelopes that will not be eaten by the machines at the post office.
Address it to USA Horse Shows Association and make out the check the same, mark whatever you send me as either a donation or a request for how many bracelets. I have set up a fund for donations to the general NO-REINSTATEMENT fund to cover those who may not be able to afford to pay but support our actions. We hope also to be able to advertise in those magazines will to use our Press Release.
The actual out of pocket cost with shipping and mailing is $2.00 each. I have 150 on hand and will order more as needed.
and i have to agree with Chanda. no, i don’t know PV, and have no dog in this fight (hell, membership? what membership?). i do not, in any way, shape or form, condone what he did. however, this thread, and all of the related threads, have left me feeling so uncomfortable and unsettled that there is no way in hell i’m signing that petition. who called it a mob mentality? ordinarily, i’d be the first to tout the GOOD that COTHers can do. but in this case, i would really rather not have my name associated with it. i respect everyone’s efforts to try to prevent PV’s reinstatement (although, no one has been able to answer my questions, from several pages back, why are you all so sure that he is going to apply at all?), but the tone taken by many of the posters, attacking PV’s clients, stating some inaccurate information, and seemingly turning this into a personal attack on PV (even though it shouldn’t be, and i beleive the petition was intended to be a way to keep any of those involved from being reinstated, not just PV) makes my stomach turn.
Me too JN…and I remember the jokes…Mikey C and John H were asked to help pull Charisma out her stall the morning after… when looking at sale horses @ Cellular. We were told she had “colicked” and had no idea…you’d think the old tough guys like Mike would be guilty of this shit…but I give him credit. You would NOT believe some of the owners who asked about a convenient “accident”… to occur to their insured animals. The answer was always a resounding NO…and find a new barn!! RIP Mikey.
And that’s two people currently enjoying a two-week vacation. Anyone else who wants to join them, feel free…
I would be happy to sign any petition to keep PV or any of the other convicted horse killers from being reinstated
Schuyler, perhaps you do not see that the monies raised from the T-Shirts are going to be used to fund the effort to ban re-instatement. They are not used as a mockery of the individual. The petitioners have the same right to protest the reinstatement as Mr. Valliere has to apply for it.
Originally posted by mwe:
Growing up in New England, showing at the same shows as Acres Wild students, I was nothing but impressed with Paul, his horses and riders.
’
You must have missed some of the shows I saw him at…I have some pretty vivid memories.
Originally posted by Snowbird:
Excuse me please! What you say about his being subject to the old Rule Book is quite true and yes I do have a copy and when I have time will print the pertinent information.
However, those rules were amended and the 2005 Rules as published apply to all those who ride and compete with horses in the care and custody of a suspended person. That is not limited to the owner of the business, the farm or the facility but anyone who is boarded in a a barn where a suspended person is in charge.
It says no one may ride any horse trained by a suspended person. They may not compete for his benefit and credit. Those people on the show circuit during 2005 who have been easily identified as the students of a suspended person are in violation of these rules and can be held accountable.
Read the new rules because they do not apply to Paul Valiere’s penalty but to the new infractions and violations of the rules. The Stewards at this the shows where such participation is accepted have a responsibility to enforce all current rules equally and fairly on all members.
ever heard of the term “Ex post facto law” it means that you cannot be punished under a law if the act was committed before the law was in place. punishing under the new rules of the usef would be an ex post facto and therefore cannot occur.
Originally posted by big dawg:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by Boston Chicken:
In case you need a reminder, abortion is legal in this country. Murdering a horse for insurance fraud is not…
You seem to think that if it is legal then it is o.k. to do it…no personal sense of right and wrong…I knew you liberals were running this petition drive…a bunch of crazed animal rights terrorists…But recognize it is just that…we must follow the Rules, remember. That is what is “legal” here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Do you realize how you’re contradicting yourself? A person could get dizzy trying to unspin all the doublespeak that’s in your post. One minute you chastise posters for standing behind the law, the next paragraph you tell them to follow USEF rules. Then you have the cajones to tell us we have no personal sense of right or wrong. Do you have any clue how completely ridiculous that sounds when you’re trying to support someone who inflicted unspeakable pain on a horse for the sake of greed?
And for heaven’s sake, you have no freaking clue how most of us feel about abortion, it has nothing, zippo, nada to do with this discussion. Stop using it as a point, because it isn’t a point. That said, if anyone ever knocks you up without your consent, I wager we’ll support your right to make a choice about whatever it is you spawn. Mostly because we’d feel so deeply sorry for the little guy.
Great! Thanks, Julie. We’re up over 700 now!
And Snowbird, you said…
Perhaps War Admiral while you have the ball in play the Petition for not reinstating PV should be the first shot over the bow.
That’s been the plan all along. 
SORRY ERIN… THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A PM PLEASE FORGIVE ME 
While you’re at it read the Gospel of Mary Magdalene which was written at the time and left out as well.
Originally posted by FuzzyLogic:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Uberraschung:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by FuzzyLogic:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by horse_poor:
So the USEF committee have to be psychics?
I think they mean psych chicks
meadowlark, any thread has a purpose if people are interested enough to keep it active by discussing things. Threads die on their own when people are no longer interested.
I have no obligation to shut a thread down just because you don’t think it serves a purpose… sorry, but that’s not how it works.
And I’ll step up and volunteer for media relations - see the OFF COURSE thread to help!
DMK, just how and where DO you come across this stuff?!
What is your definition of “crazies”? I am sitting here in the mother nest of the “Old Boys” network Cincinnati. Are the crazies the ones who crawl forward at a snail’s pace ignoring the real state of the world and still believing that what they think is all that’s right?
Are they the ones who vote on convoluted rules that are barely intelligible because they are intended to do one thing and actually no one knows what that is? Are they the ones who will not admit what they don’t understand what they are accomplishing? Are they the ones who will vote to table to July anything which is slightest bit controversial so they can claim to be on both sides of the issue?
I so YES! you belong to an association where you have no vote, no voice and no knowledge of the plan, no financial accountability and no responsibility but they are the ones who just may reinstate PV who has murdered horses not just taken personal drugs.
I can see a time when all the derelicts of society will be in the horse world because we are the only place who will welcome them and allow them to continue to practice their chosen professions.
These are the people who will vote to reinstate a horse killer into the horse world. We can’t allow mules to compete in Hunters and Jumpers because it would be demeaning if they won.
