I think that the objection that most of the people has stems from his “pushing the envelope” so to speak - the training sessions via walkie-talkie while within inches of show grounds, enjoying the horse show camper areas which are conveniently called “not part of show grounds”, and the fact that the same sort of offense earned one of the suspendees a life suspension. I grant you that the other offender did actually visit ringside, but then again he was not profiting by doing so. Again, the USEF can pretty much do what they want with it, and I do suspect that Mr. Valliere will have more power on his side than the general masses. If the USEF were to bend to what may be a majority of members who did not want him reinstated, I would bet that a civil suit would be in the making on his behalf.
exactly…my point is that this horse had a future, he could have been a beginners flat horse, or a companion, and NUMEROUS people offered to take him for free and keep him and care for him for the rest of his life…however if the owner chose that route she wouldnt be able to buy a new horse…
Originally posted by C.Boylen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>C.Boylen you can’t have it both ways.
The only way I want it is the correct way. Your explanation of tax practices was incorrect for most of the horse-owning population. I’m not arguing anything other than facts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don’t think that “most of the horse owning population” have horses that cost anywhere near what the insured horses that were killed cost. Probably “most of the horse owning population” that you are referring to, don’t even insure their horses. The people that have the horses that compete at the upper echelon horse shows like WEF are a very small percentage of “the horse owning population”. “Most of the horse owning population” probably take care of their own horses or board at a barn that doesn’t have an indoor and doesn’t cost four figures per month to board a horse. And “most of the horse owning population” would probably have jumped at the chance to have any one of the horses that were killed for the insurance money.
And “most of the horse owning population” could donate a horse to a non-profit organization (like many handicapped riding programs are) AND get a tax deduction WITHOUT being a “business.” All you have to do to be able to write the donation off is [that you] itemize your deductions on your IRS tax form.
Not to rehash it, but that past thread had a lot of innapropriateness on both sides. The entire thread itself was innapropriate to start, but that is not the point.
Although I dont think he should be reinstated, I wont sign a petition either. It reminds me too much of the Salem witch trials or Nazi Germany. The decision is best left to the organization who is involved.
Chanda - I just was a little surprised by your loyalty to him, that’s all. I still think you are a remarkably bright and well spoken young woman with a wealh of knowledge that you graciously share.
I do think the threads get hot and nasty becasue of the subject matter. I can only speak for myself, but my horse is so much more than a show horse (actually he is not really a show horse unless a talented pony jock is on him) He is my family member, my buddy, my childwrapped up in one. He has dissapointed me as well as a nuimber of well known NE trainers but I fought them all and kept him. I am pretty sure a lot of members here feel the same (I know BC does). To us, the idea of killing our buddies becasue they wont jump or wont win is just mind boggling. But then again, I chose not to move up and stay with him instead.
That’s where most of those nasty posts were coming from.
The part about arguing over who is the most evil or the least evil is done with but we still need group participation for letters and emails to the Board and Hearing Committee.
The issue might be started on another thread in terms of procedures to keep the file open and the best way to make our position heard and known. That is we no longer need to discuss the versus positions. But actions that are plausible and might be effective.
Originally posted by harryjohnson:
Sadly no, the wife listens not to me nor to her trainer, she sees a horse that looks nice, and immediately thinks anyone can ride it.
Well, all of us ladies like to look at the young ones and think “if only…”
Ohhhhh please. Every public action he’s taken in the last 10 years has been in aid of reinstatement. All those egregiously self-serving ads???
Maybe the guy is trying to atone.
Dude, I was never dealing with you in the first place. I made a comment re how I thought that snorting coke was not at the same criminal level as killing horses, and you decided to make a bunch of assumptions about me. Which were all wrong.
Originally posted by N&B&T:
Janet and Chanda–I interpreted Snowbird’s remarks to apply to professionals, running a business, and not to private individuals.
I have no knowledge about the technical part of it all.
But CHANDA’S post referred to most horse people. That is the one I was talking about.
Race, next weekend, Mount Holyoke Hunter show rescheduled, it is your golden opportunity. And please, stop with the blizzards.
Speaking of being dam*^d if you do and dam#$d if you don’t–if one discusses PV individually one is attacking him; if one doesn’t one is a vigilante and wasting one’s time.
??? 
Originally posted by TWOLEFTFEET:
Are there NO heroes for us to look up to?
Unfortunately the ‘names’ people choose to look up to are not heros.
that’s great - I didn’t want to take one of SNL’s bracelets as I am not out on any of those circuits where they really need to be seen but I would like to a)show my support and b)wear it to shows so that I can explain to others the significance
Sounds like a good plan to me!
Looks as though someone is tired of watching him train from the parking lot at shows.
I’m confused on the logistics of this.
Haven’t noticed anything “devoted” to you.
Obviously, radiotalk, it is in the past, and does not concern anyone. Just like here in Connecticut, where a man threw his dog out of a 3rd story window, and was not allowed to keep the dog. Gee, I wonder why. But here, we are talking about a BNT…PAUL VALLIERE…so what he did does not matter. I apologize. Let us welcome him back, after all, he is the BEST trainer ever to have graced the earth. However, to have someone with the wherewithal and ability to take this to the USEF and make a positive influence on the sport callously state that they are concerned only with the present and future, well that is just wrong.
Cool it, people.
JuniorJumper: be nice, be respectful, be polite, no snarking. You’re more than welcome to express your opinion, but if you’re just coming on the thread trying to rile people up, you’re not going to be allowed to continue to participate on the thread.
And the rest of you – stop taking the bait.
Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by Linus:
I think it’s a good point that PV didn’t kill other people’s horses, without their consent, so I find Renn/aissance’s post (however well-written) completely off base.
Let me put my twist, as a breeder, on Renn’s post then…
But imagine that this horse was your horse. <span class=“ev_code_BLUE”>insert: a horse that I bred</span> Maybe he wasn’t ever going to be what you and your trainer had hoped he would be- maybe he never would have succeeded over the bigger fences. But this was a good horse, and a horse that you love. <span class=“ev_code_BLUE”>and maybe a horse that I waited for 11 months for, delivered in the wee hours of the morning, and nurtured. Raised to be a good citizen, and then sold him to what I thought was a SUPER home with a TOP professional 
believing he would have a great life.</span>You arrive at the show one day to find that he’s dead, and you’re heartbroken. Your horse, the one that you love, your baby, is dead. Maybe you watch him being dragged away- or maybe you couldn’t bear to watch. But then you find out that your trainer, whom you admire, killed him.
This is a person that should not only just barely be squeaking by on any rules with some VERY good grease, but as an icon, he should be at a very high standard.
The best??? Not in my opinion. I consider him one of the worst. Someone with less talent is a much better trainer than anyone that at ANYTIME in their life, would be willing to consider killing a horse for financial gain, or status. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Which brings me back to my questions about “what is the definition of horse murder?” that no one has deigned to answer yet. Horses aren’t people or babies. They are bought and sold, which I don’t believe you would do with your child in the normal course of things. Neither would you put down a child with a broken leg or a terminal illness. We get attached to them but in all reality, the horse that one breed and sells is a commodity.
Thus why I don’t understand why yours and renn’s suppositions are relevant to this case.
Originally posted by harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens:
Chanda, you have stated before that you are friends with PV and his clients. Enough said on the subject. You can sit on here and quote rules and regulations from now until forever, but the fact of the matter is, killing a horse because it does not live up to your expectaions and promises is just wrong. Disagree with me if you must, but, fraud is a crime.
But he still has the right to petition for readmission.
Serah, you sound as if you know people who do this personally. If you know of it, then you should be contacting the authorities and making them public with charges. We are trying to put the focus on what has happended so these people do not get back into the show world. If you know of these acts being done and have done nothing, you are no better than them by turning the other cheek.
