I thought Mr. Ward was a permanent suspension when he kept pissing in everyone’s cornflakes (figurativly speaking) by ignoring the rules of his suspension and appearing at USEF shows. I could be mistaken.
Originally posted by Sheila H:
I’m always puzzled by the arguement that he is somehow circumventing the terms of the suspension. The AHSA could have said something like ‘we will only consider an application for reinstatement if he has nothing to do with horses for ten years’, but they didnt. What they did say was quite the opposite - he has to demonstrate that he’s ok to be around horses, which presumably requires his continued involvement.
Whoever said the no reinstatement people’s real beef is with the AHSA’s ruling 10 years ago was pretty smart. Was that Glimmerglass?
I think it would have been very unlikely that AHSA could have denied him his profession. They can not say he can not make a living by practicing his trade. Only that he may not compete in their sanctioned shows. Many trainers never make it to the rated shows, they still can teach, clinic, ride, train and sell horses. So it is not like it would be a hardship that was insufferable or take the food off his table.
JJ01 - First, had to say what a GORGEOUS barn that is (Split Creek)! 
(Cute horse too!)
Second, you might want to recommend that someone update Carl’s bio on the website. (It has American Horse Show Assoc. all over it. 
)
Third, “Not to be crude, but you’re all beating a dead horse.” Hmmm…YES, that was crude and inappropriate, imo.
So hows 'bout if I shorten that paragraph to this:
“For his violation of the rules as charged, the committee determined pursuant to the provisions of Rule III, Article 302.6 and Rule VII, Article 703.1 (b), © and (f), that effective immediately and until further notice, MR. VALLIERE is hereby expelled from membership in the AHSA… The panel members also directed that the Hearing Committee retains jurisdiction over this matter, and MR. VALLIERE may not apply to the Association for reinstatement any sooner than 10 years from the date he first became suspended by the Association… and then only based upon affirmative proof of total rehabilitation, including proof that he has taken steps to reform himself and has performed community service to benefit the welfare of horses.”
Better??
But we are licensed now and I specifically asked that question when Legal Council was present at our meeting. I would be pleased if it is not so except for the extra work chasing down who all owns a horse. Besides they would just sell the horse for a $1.00 or call it a Lease.
[Q
Good letter and 
, I would certainly sign !though I I do think it will require support from a //bnRT/T or sponser to make it effective.does anyone remember CarlKnee? Has anyone contacted Equus about this? Were they sponsoring the finals he was to judge?
I will admit, I did have the chance to speak with him while he was in the rescue process…And I do have to say, it was a most life-altering experience for him in many ways…
Well, blessed be…
It STILL doesn’t change the past Nor should he or any of the others be reinstated. plain and simple. I know many Legal Judges who have told me that prior to sentencing, the defendat more offten and not is remorseful and have found the Lord. And the Judges says, “you should of thought of your actions and the consiquences first not standing before me now?”
I have been working here on the left coast and don’t have a moment to always immediately respond. That being said, as a person who knows PV and thinks that he in fact is remorseful and regrets his past actions I will speak out. (and no doubt get flamed and repeatedly have my morality, etc questioned by all who disagree with me). I think that those who do not want PV reinstated are within their rights to sign a petition, make t-shirts etc, just as I am within my rights to not sign the same petition. Like any crime, they are judged case by case and so will the reinsatement of PV. When and/if he applies the committee will focus on him and his case alone not all that were involved.
Originally posted by Erin:
anthem, I think the comment about you “making this personal” was referring to the fact that you always bring this back to PV as an individual, which results in several pages of “is not!”/“is so!” type rubbish that is pretty pointless, because not everyone is going to agree on an assessment of an individual.
This thread would probably be a lot more productive if it stayed on the topic of reinstatement in general, rather than on specific cases.
I disagree. I think we succomb to “mob mentality” if we attempt to treat ALL the suspended people as a group rather than as individuals.
The each had an individual suspension with a specific date on which they were entitled to apply for reinstatement.
“Due process” and just plain fairness says that EACH ONE should be separately assessed in terms of the extent to which they have met the conditions for reinstatement.
It is all very well to say “I don’t think any of them should be reinstated”- but each one has to reapply and be considered individually.
You can talk about rules that say “if you do X you can never be reinstated”, but even if you could get it passed, it would not apply retroactively. It would only apply to future acts of X.
The suspended individuals will reapply individually. If you are going to provide comments to the USEF hearing committee, those comments need to address THE PARTICULAR PERSON applying for reinstatement. Comments which apply to “all the suspended persons” are not going to be taken anything like as seriously as comments which apply to THAT SPECIFIC PERSON, and the SPECIFIC CRITERIA for reinstatement.
edited for typos
I wonder if PV were to be “disguised” he would be as easily outted as Barney. The powers that be seem to have more disdain for BW than for PV, and in this old goats mind, which is the more offensive?
Originally posted by harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens:
Anthem, seeing as you ride and train with PV, I am sure you have the answers, or at least the ones you want, to all of your questions. As far as I am concerned, he can judge any show he wants to, I would hope never a USEF rated one, but that is not my decision to make. He can conduct business anywhere he wishes, again, hopefully not at a USEF event, but again, that is not my decision. I personally do not care where he gets the money to pay his bills, as long as it is not my money, which it never will be. As far as the advertising goes, many of us do good things, but we do not take out advertisements to brag about it, and would be embarassed to market our good works. Again, if he needs public record he helped an old woman across the street, someone will sell him advertising space to showcase this, that is his business and theirs. As far as speaking to the man goes, I knew him before this happened, I do not care to know him now, I will say hello, that is it. In this equation, that is my right, just as he has his right to advertise, run a stable, judge a show. Sorry, but some privileges are still available to those of us who are not big name trainers/customers.
Harry, as always, I appreciate both your civility and your opinion.
My reason for asking the questions was merely to further understand the petition.
It makes a few points which I feel are inaccurate, as well as irrelevant.
But as you agree, Paul does have the privelege to run a business.
But the rights and priveleges do not end there.
We are all also give the right to make mistakes.
Thankfully for us all, we are also give a chance to make our apologies, and a chance to make amends.
But how can you decide if someone is sorry if YOU personally havent given that person a chance to be?
You admit you knew Paul at one point in your life…Would it be so wrong to just LISTEN to his VOICE, and not what you HEAR?
A chance, thats it…If you can take the time to listen, then decide for yourself, I will respect your opinion.
Many people posting have never been to a horse show, nor know what goes on at the upper levels of horse sports (racing, as well as showing)
If you are talking about the people who post on this particular thread, you would be surprised how many show at the big shows and know what goes on.
Do you show at the upper levels?
Many of the posters have had dealing with some of the people who are spoke about on this threads and know them very well.
Do you?
jn1193:Paul never “killed” a horse. As I have stated before, horses are sent every day to be “killed”. At the time this occurred it was not uncommon. I sent my horse to Paul to sell last winter, he was professional…more so than other people the horse was with. i received a call daily about the horse’s progress, he listened to my opinion on the training of the horse, he was more open to my opinion than other trainers…he was compassionate and found her a wonderful home…
Originally posted by Janet:
If you want to ACCMPLISH something, as opposed to blowing a lot of hot air that makes you feel better, you need to address EACH person as he/she applies for reinstatement.
Janet, it seems to me that people here recognize that each person’s potential reinstatement needs to be addressed individually. However, I think the thread has taken a more general turn to address what people feel constitutes unacceptable behavior, and it’s good philosophical discussion. I don’t think of it as “hot air” as it’s been very educational and thought provoking.
No question that each person’s individual actions will determine if they are indeed reinstated. But when the thread seemed to focus solely on PV, some posters reacted that this was a personal attack against him, and others were simply trying to point out it’s not. That led to the more broad postings of late, and I for one find them valuable. I think we can discuss the overall topic in the broad sense but still oppose each potential reinstatement individually.
Posting general philosophies and actually addressing each reinstatement opportunity are two different events that require different approaches, and I’m reasonably sure that most of us know that. But thanks for the reminder.
Originally posted by Duffy, CFO, Aefvue Farm LLC:
I asked these questions of Anthem many pages ago.
Sorry, Duffy, I must have missed your question amidst the personal attacks on me…
What was the question?
Originally posted by scout33:
Question- if the issue is reinstatement why is PV being singled out?
He’s not, and I apologize if that impression is being created.
The only way we can approach this situation is to take the same approach USEF has taken - that being, to deal with each suspended party on an individual basis. Each of the nine people listed here in the Hearing Committee minutes received a different length of suspension. Thus, each person becomes eligible to apply for reinstatement at a different time.
USEF really had no choice in the way they handled this; we don’t either.
Been quietly observing for a few weeks, actually looked away from the computer to RIDE…
A few questions I just need clarification on…
1)Exactly which horse show did Paul judge ( rated, or non)and when? I am aware that he was ASKED to judge, to which he politely declined after meeting such public attack and opposition.
-
Why is he not allowed to conduct any business he chooses on private property? My understanding is that Grand Prix Village, which does abut horse show property, is all privately owned…
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It is a fact that Paul did and does continue to operate as a trainer of horses and riders. Given the circumstances, I would imagine that the incident would have resulted in substantial legal bills. Having had a considerable operation, as well as a family to support, how were the bills to be paid?
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As far as any advertising goes…Was any advertising that may have been done false? Were donations that were reportedly made, not actually made? If the conditions to be met for any future reinstatement included rehabilitation as well as valid attempts to repay the community, why are such attempts discredited? Perhaps rather than ‘self-serving’ they are more in hopes to bring such attempts to the notice of the community? Perhaps they are exactly what the committee was asking for, an attempt to give back.
Last of all, I do have one question…
Have any of you actually spoken WITH Paul, and given him at least an opportunity to apologize?
BLBGP, please, take note, we are only concerned with issues and conditions that currently affect horse welfare here. Someone who has abused horses in the past is not really a matter of consideration. We need to forgive.
I am sure Mr. Valliere’s horses are some of the best kept, best looking, and best treated animals on the circuit. He bills his clients quite regularly for the service, and the care of Roseau Platiere received is an indication of such. And of course Acres Wild Farm is not owned by Mr. Valliere, at least not on paper.
Snowbird - probably no worse than I have already at least once or twice. 
Racetb - while I can’t speak for the others I know I don’t want to steal your Baseball Jesus. What I would love to know though is what made you collect the sport Jesuses (is that the plural of Jesus?) in the first place.
