War admiral
do you know the name of paul’s business or any present or past riders that he employed?
what about his wife what does she have to do with this?
Forgiveness is highly overrated, and in this circumstance, irrelevant. We could choose to forgive every murderer in prison but that wouldn’t involve letting them out to be among those he hurt. There is something so morally bankrupt in what these people did that I would personally never forgive them and could not be in their presence without feeling physically ill. And, as usual, I am astonished that everyone does not feel as I do.
I think horse killers are trying to say they “accidently” whacked a horse and then “accidentley” claimed a deduction. But the petition is not an accident nor are the signatures. I think worms in a glass “wish” they were accidents, please let them go…
Originally posted by harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens:
As far as I am concerned, he can judge any show he wants to, I would hope never a USEF rated one, but that is not my decision to make. He can conduct business anywhere he wishes, again, hopefully not at a USEF event, but again, that is not my decision.
If it is not your decision to make, why then are you petitioning to the masses to picket the governing body?
Why not let it be THEIR decision, based on the penalties they delivered, and the criteria for reinstatement that they defined?
Just go to[B]
http://www.cafepress.com/norein[/B]
And start shopping. I’m excited I just learned how to do that you can take a pick at my one old store http://www.cafepress.com/usAHSA
Jatomic Streaker is a horse who was flipped out of a trailer and “finished” off with a hammer to make it look like an accident for the insurance claim.
I have a friend who quietly sponsors PMU foals, and now in addition to her dtr’s show horse, has one of the foals with a trainer. She now is getting more vocal, and doing fundraising to help them out. She is one I would call a hero, tho she doesn’t consider herself one.
For the record, I believe that the below list of individuals should not be allowed to join the USEF nor should they be allowed to compete as non-members at any sanctioned shows.
Richard Bailey
Nancy Banfield (she may be in but that does not alter my opinion)
Donna Brown
Robert Brown (no - this is not Buddy)
Tommy Burns aka Tim Ray
Robert Cheska
Jerry Farmer (dead)
Tammie Glaspie
Kenneth Hansen
James Heinsohn
Dr Ross Hugi
Marion Hulick
Donna Hunter
Michael Hunter
James Hutson
Lisa Kinney
Herb Kroninger
Alan Levinson
George Lindemann, Jr.
Ron Mueller
Georg Nuber
Matt O’Connor
Laura Stern-Grzebieniak
Phil Sudakoff
Scott Thompson
Paul Valliere
Barney Ward
Dana Waters nee Tripp (courtesy of one_star_or_bust)
Steve Williamson
Brenda ‘Joni’ Youngblood
The above list includes some convicted of involvement and not necessarily former members of the (then) AHSA, thus, not all were suspended.
That is a first run-through - there are more that I will add as I review the cases.
All except the suck-butts. You should know that.
Originally posted by ise@ssl:
Sarabeck -
“Libel” (not liable) is when you falsely accuse someone of breaking a law or committing a crime.
If he isn’t running a business - what is his livelood now? You gals who defend what a wonderful person he is and the BEST Eq trainer out there. Is he giving lessons and clinics pro bono?
165 IQ - no way! Absolutely NO WAY.
as far as i am concerned he does not give clinics. the lessons are not in anyway money related to the usef. he is allowed to conduct business in private, just not anything dealing with the usef. lessons on his property are not able to be controlled by the usef. snowbird, i’d like to know what my handicap is, as 165 is considered extremely above average. the fact that you cannot make an argument without insulting a person gives you a handicap. it shows that you are incapable of making a strong debate without pulling in irrelevant statements. ise@ssl, you “adults” that are SO much more mature than me have still failed to tell me what is so unintelligent about what i say. please enlighten me. snowbird, i’m SURE your IQ test was a legally rendered one. 
When I asked why the decision whether to sign the petition or not was perceived as difficult, I wasn’t trying to be nasty, I was just trying to make sure that there aren’t any relevant facts of which I am unaware. Haven’t heard anything yet that makes me feel ambivalent. And I don’t understand how the opposition to reinstatement by many of us can be characterized as personal, since I certainly am not personally acquainted with any of the people in question. But I am able to read the crimes they have been convicted of, which in this case is enough.
Rules are rules, though. If he’s not allowed at USEF shows, then he’s not allowed there. Period. It doesn’t matter if it’s an off day, a carnival day, or nude riding day.
No, xegeba, that is not what I am saying, what I am saying is the Mr. Valliere damn well ought to take excellent care of the horses in his care, he certainly charges enough to do so.
So… you have no arguement with the poster that said his horses are well-cared for… and what he charges and what people are willing to pay means what?
Originally posted by Kap: Aefvue Young’un:
Why doesn’t PV just buy the domain name www.iscrewedupandimsorry.com and post a permanent “I’m sorry” letter to the horse world for anyone to go read?
You know, at this point, he may consider it.
I cant speak for him, but at this point, I’m not sure where I’d be begin to apologize to the community.
But I’m sure he wishes he knew.
Snowbird doesn’t kill her horses for insurance money -
But can you assure me that every horse that has been under Snowbird’s control has died a natural death?
Snowbird- thank you. And, I too agree with DMK.
Seems perfectly clear to me!
Sticking a second toe in 
. Wouldn’t PV have been already cited for any subsequent violations by now had he been out of line? I’m not certain, but would suspect these types of possible infractions would have already been looked at?
Erin I’m not sure that’s true there was a violation that was fined a trainer by USEF that didn’t happen at a horse show at all. Apparently a client left a barn owing money and there was a nasty phone call from a private phone to a private phone having only reference to horse shows.
Care and custody is also a matter of insurance. All the horses on my farm are insured under care and custody and that could apply at shows there is no exemption that says it doesn’t. All barns have a liability and that’s what it covers. If as suggested the horse he lent for the Macaly was a Sales Horse it would be covered under that policy but the entry form should indicate not owner but agent.
Thank you Harry, I should have known you’d be familiar with the Pine Rest. It’s the end of several eras. I have some very fond, albeit foggy, memories of that fine establishment. I’ll break the news to my mother gently.
