The "NO REINSTATEMENT" thread.

[ss3777]

Thanks Showponymom,

I will keep everyone updated. Julie Welles is a senior at Ethel Walker and a story about her is on the Ethel Walker website:

https://www.ethelwalker.org/Page598.aspx?showcontent=4393&display=24

I also found this information on the faculty web page:

Deborah D. Welles
Assistant Director of Riding
Admissions Officer
B.A., St. Lawrence University
At Walker’s since 1996

Richard A. Caldwell
Director of Riding
B.S., Baptist College
M.Ed. in progress, University of Virginia
At Walker’s since 1996

Linda Kossick Langmeier
Head Riding Instructor
At Walker’s since 2001

I have not been able to find the board or trustees’ contact information. I will keep trying. Any help would be appreciated.

[BaliBandido]

Originally posted by mwe:
Do you think your customers would stay with you if they had to stay home too?? Nope, they would be out the door, riding with someone else.

That would be refreshing and dare I say an appropriate response to finding out ones professional had been convicted of a crime that was a result of his actions in his industry. Not say for unpaid parking tickets.

He does have supporters that are just as willing to work hard on his behalf as those working against him

That is our system

[Janet]

The suspension was definate in its length of time, so again, I’m somewhat confused. The only thing that is somewhat subjective is as to whether or not Paul has shown what the AHSA deemed to be a reformation.

That is NOT what the suspensions say. The suspensions have an indefinite term (i.e. forever) with the possibility to APPLY for reinstatement after X years.

If they (AHSA/USEF) wanted the suspension to have a DEFINITE term (contingent only on complying with the original suspension), they would have said “suspension for X years”. Regardless of the length of the suspension, violating the suspension leads to a new charge, a new hearing, and an additional period of suspension. This HAS happened recently with some other suspended persons.

[N_B_T]

YT, the answer to number 3 appears to be yes, based on the USEF quote in this Nancy Jaffer article in the New Jersey Star Ledger

Also see the Get Out Your Pens thread started by Coreene for further information on letter writing.

To consolidate, this thread contains links to the above article and to two other articles, in the Providence Journal and the Palm Beach Post.

Finally, waaaaay back somewhere in the beginning of this thread, Erin mentioned that this issue was suitable for someone wishing to submit commentary to the Horsemens Forum.

[meadow_lark]

Originally posted by Snowbird:
Excuse me C.Boylan but you limited your debate to Article 704 on GR68 however…
Article 702 on page GR67 is more difficult to evade.
[B]
GR702 Violations

1. A violation is any act prejudicial to the best interests of the Federation, including but not limited to the following:

c. Penalization by an administrative agency, human society or<span class=“ev_code_red”> court of law </span> for violation of Federation Rules.

g. Failure to obey any penalty imposed by the Federation.

<span class=“ev_code_red”>h. Exhibiting any horse while in the care and training or custody of a suspended person.

i. Riding, exhibiting, coaching or training for the benefit , credit, reputation or satisfaction of a suspended person.</span>[/B]

I think by virtue of all of your statements and those others who ride with PV you have certified that all of you are in violation of these rules. By placing people in violation of these rules PV has proved that he has no remorse and no intention or regard for his penalty as worth following.

Further he has corrupted the system by permitting those who are his friends to be in jeopardy of being violators of these rules and therefore subject themselves to penalties by the USEF.

Wouldn’t it be a pity if he were re-instated and all his clients were then suspended?

Yes, but none of that is applicable

1. No one was penalized by a court of law for violation of Federation rules–they were all found guilty of insurance fraud.
2. No amatuer rider is exhibiting a horse while in the care of a suspended person–PV, BW and others only give lessons and clinics.
3. Amateurs can’t ride, exhibit, train, etc. for the benefit of a suspended person–they would have to be professionals to do any of those things, and they are not…

Being able to critically read is important in reading these legal rules.

[Snowbird]

Well we bombed at the Convention. I ws referred by a Member of the Board and Bill Moroney was supposed to bring it up to the Hearing Committee Meeting and he never did. Without an opening to discuss it the papers I had with me didn;t do any good.

I was very depressed that there was no interest at all in preventing felons guilty of crimes against horses from being members in good standing. Actually Kenneth Berlin who is in jail is a member in good standing. I find this very perverse.

There was a lot of RAH! RAH! aren’t we wonderful but not much interest in our issues. Although there was a survey that showed their big problem was communication and support for the “grassroots”. This was convention that focused on what was being done well and didn;t want to hear about anything else.

I’m beginning to believe that going to the Press is the best way to get attention. Anyone with good press contacts out here and interested?

[Boberry]

For the school they may be taking the director’s “word” for everything equine. I’ll write them and ask.

[SGray]

Rule of thumb is: if you feel the need to hide an action then it is an action that should not occur.

[Racetb_Aefvue_Farm_B]

Yes…thank you ALL who have done so much. The unconcern with prestige, and the courage of your convictions, will perhaps keep the spirit of The Spotsman’s Charter in horsemens’ hearts. Here’s to you, sportsmen and women…and every horse that brought you here.

[Snowbird]

Only if he owns them outright. He can be a partial owner and if the other owner is permitted the horse or pony can compete.

Enforcement of the rules depends on whether people are willing to respect those rules. I’m not certain that as a Non-Member if he assisted and was not the trainer of record there is anyway to prevent his presence at a show; or that of any Non-Member.

I think he is courteous to be technically legal with a view to re-instatement.

[Snowbird]

Hopeful Hunter I have sent you a PM regarding the information you requested. Thank you.

[Duffy]

But, why not support it because you agree with it then? If no one supported anything because they didn’t think they’d make a difference, where would we be?

[Snowbird]

Ah! but I can document that! I have never collected an insurance claim on a single horse and my bills will prove they were fed, fat and happy until it was their time to go to the rainbow bridge.

[Yours_Truly]

Originally posted by N&B&T:
I for one am not “anti-PV” but rather anti-reinstatement for all those convicted. These two things are very different!

Are you argainst reinstatements PERIOD? Or are you against reinstatements for those who were convicted of a federal crime?

P.S. I’m not a PV supporter.

[Seal_Harbor]

Originally posted by big dawg:
you count everyone’s posts? WOW

Six in a row were rather obvious, considering you were commenting on the way other people were spending their time. Perhaps you should be more concerned about the way you are spending your time. You haven’t added much, if any thing, to the thread.

[Duffy]

xegeba - the “guy” does NOT appear to be suffering…

[CBoylen]

Knowing “everyone involved personally” probably skews your memory even more, and makes you all the more biased, IMHO.

I said at the beginning of the discussion on these boards that I was biased. That is why I felt that the ultimate legal decision should be left to the legal entities, and was frankly none of my business personally.
I will take offense to the perception that my memory is “skewed”, however. As I said, my family and I were both present, and we all remember it quite clearly. I assume my mother is old enough for her memory to be admissible, and not quite old enough yet for it to be suspect as well.
In any case, the point is that my post is not about me, or what I do and do not remember or do and do not forgive.
The point of my post was that the statement made here that Paul has not apologized to anyone or shown remorse to anyone is incorrect.
I have seen him do so, and so I chose to correct that untrue statement.

[Janet]

I think he is to be commended for helping out in the aftermath of Katrina. And the fact that I (at least) had not heard about it before this means it was NOT “just a publicity stunt”.

So it counts in his favor.

But it is still open to judgement how it balances against the negative items.

[Kap]

Originally posted by anthem35:
Actually, Fairview, yes they are.

Having spent many a year on Wall Street, I watched bankers and traders cuffed and collared on the desk, and lead off to punishment.

Fines are paid, time is served, and then, yes, they are allowed back into the system.

Free to resume the life they may have taken a wrong turn in…as so many other have.

Erm, stocks are public property. It’s like getting caught shoplifting a watch… it doesn’t bar you from buying watches anymore, or buying from the same company. (I think?)

[shade]

There are a lot of people on here that WERE around and DO know the details and knew & know PV quite well. So please JrJp stop telling us we don’t know what we’re talking about and don’t know the whole story. And as I said previously donating money does not say contributing to the horse community to me. I posted several ideas a while ago that to me would be some things these people could do to show that they really are sorry for what they did and want to give back to the horse community. Since they are the ones that have put such a black eye on our industry. We didn’t do it…they did.