Originally posted by anthem35:
Having spent many a year on Wall Street, I watched bankers and traders cuffed and collared on the desk, and lead off to punishment.
Fines are paid, time is served, and then, yes, they are allowed back into the system.
Free to resume the life they may have taken a wrong turn in…as so many other have.
Henry Blodgett comes to mind. His experience, which may be an isolated event, is contrary to what you have seen.
I’ll let Erin handle that.
big dawg, thank you for explaining what I had already made clear. I never would have understood what I was saying otherwise. Obviously you have no agenda other than keeping this thread on page one.
Originally posted by Snowbird:
That depends on how your define “moral”.
That depends on how you define "legalities.
If moral means doing what’s right and legal means following the intent and purpose of the rules then I humbly disagree.
Well Snowbird, then I guess it also depends on what your definition of “right” is, no? 
If you want to get technical, I can always whip out a dictionary for you…
Originally posted by Erin:
If you click on the quote icon ON the post that you want to quote (the quote icon is the file folder with a quotation mark on it),
OK-Thanks!!
What PV said clearly was he was guilty. It is not a mistake to hire someone to kill your horse so that it looks like a natural death. That is calculating and it is premeditated murder of a horse for profit in dollars.
He cooperated after he was caught later to mediate his own sentence. That is clear and unchallenged fact.
I have no doubt he regrets that he was caught. But, he is free to be in the horse business as it is and he may continue to do so, he can make a living at horses or anything of his choice and I wish him well. BUT, there is no question the US Equestrian Federation should never again allow him to be a member in good standing so he ever becomes a role model for the young trainers and students yet to come along.
He should never pursue whatever are his interests with horses at our Federation Events and Competitions. Perhaps he is talented enough to find make green horses and then sell them to trainers who are in good standing. That might be a genuine servece to this sport.
I don’t think that anyone who has committed a fraud using our horses as the means should be a Member in Good Standing if that Membership is to be valued by anyone. PV is not the only one and there is a lot company for him amongst those we should not honor with the option of Judging, Stewarding, Managing or Tarining and coaching at what is supposed to be the highest level of this sport.
I think that list should also include Joe Plemmons and Joshua Cardine, Kenneth Berlin and Wally Holly. And any other yet to be prosecuted and convicted.
Snowbird-Shows in RI???
Do you honestly think that he wants to waste his time to go to the showground JUST to show the USEF that he was above the rules???
Can you really be that bitter and cynical?? You know nothing about this man other than what the media wants you to believe.
Without going into too much detail, I rarely see the man have time to eat, much less waste time on the showgrounds.
The reason his kids do so well is that he WORKS. HARD. The amount of horses and riders that come through the door everyday, especially in Welly, is astounding.
Originally posted by VirginiaBred, Aefvue Farm, VA Chapter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>We can’t undo history. But we can keep people from slipping thru the cracks back into the sport.
Well said radio.
Rehabilitation is abstract. Every individual rehabilitates differently, some more throughly than others.ting whether PV or anyone has “truly” b
When you kill an innocent, beautiful, trusting animal for selfish greed, how do you get rehabilitated for that? Those are life lessons that are learned from birth. These people didn’t learn them. In this case, you can’t teach an old dog new tricks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Don’t get me wrong, I agree with the sentiment. But clearly the rules allow for the possibility of reformation or rehabilitation or whatever, and PV has done some things that at least look like rehabilitation. Can we acknowledge that, at least?
Surely parole boards know that a prisoner coming up for parole might not volunteer to teach others to read purely out of the goodness of his heart. But they would still look upon it favorably: at least he’s trying. There’s no way for them to know the state of the guy’s heart. They have to look at what he does.
Is the problem with PV himself and how remorseful he may or may not be (which most of us have no earthly way of knowing)? Or is it with the organization allowing for the possibility of reinstatement?
Perhaps not Uberrashung, however, from my point of view, she is certainly going to the defense of Mr. Valliere. I do not think I have ever posted irrationally, and although I do not have a horse in my barn that can hold a candle to any of hers, nor do I have the recognition that she enjoys, I do feel that someone here must indeed come to the defense of horses who have been abused.
Nope…USEF will listen, and they’ll pay attention. The credibilty of the NGB will be seriously damaged both domestically and internationally if the reinstatement is allowed. If the mainstream media got a hold of the story, should it happen, you can kiss any future horse show coverage by any major network goodbye.
i think this is called delusions of grandure. don’t you people have anything else to do than spend all day and night conjuring up a vendetta against a human being? what gives? you must live loveless lives. without forgiveness there can be no love.
from “seat of the soul” by gary zukow"
“though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start right now and make a brand new ending. that is what paul is doing. to those of you that refuse to forgive hime for his past mistakes, allow me some words to help guide you out of your self-imposed darkness.
one forgives to the degree that one loves. when you choose not to forgive, the experience that you do not forgive sticks with you. when you choose not to forgive, you basically agree to wear very dark gruesome sunglasses that distort everything, and it is you who are forced every day to look at life through thoses contaminated lenses because you have chosen to keep them.”
and finally:
there is so much bad in the best of us and so much good in the worst of us that is doesn’t behoove any of us to talk about the rest of us.
and finally for those in spite of everything will never give paul his due,words from benjamin jowett :never retreat, never explain. get it done and let them howl"
vanessa redfern, one who considers paul a great and loyal friend, a great horseman, and the finest trainer i have ever ridden with. my horses have never gotten better care, not have i ever gotten better instruction. and to boot he is truly one of the kindest, most giving person i have been lucky to have had in my life for 15 years. it doesn’t get any better than to ride at acres wild farm. we are a joyfull family in every way. drop in some day and you’ll see.
Update - Some of you may have noticed that the most recent signatures on the petition are a little peculiar!! 
Not to worry - I’m aware of the situation, but I can’t delete them until the nice folks at petitiononline track back this user’s e-mail and IP addresses.
Once they ID the person, I’ll report him/her to his/her ISP, rest assured of that. I suspect this person’s internet access will then be toast.
Meanwhile, as Coreene posted in the other thread, it’s recommended that you contact the USEF directly as follows:
Ms. Lori Nelson
Hearings Committee Liaison
U.S. Equestrian Federation
4047 Iron Works Parkway
Lexington, KY 40511
U.S.A.
E-mail: lnelson@usef.org
Thanks again for all your support!
ditto workers comp fraud, and car accident fraud, etc. Same problem—why do you think that insuring an animal is different than insuring a boat or plane for instance?
Oh! Big Dawg I too am shocked that there is anyone that is an example of classic psychosis and still not committed.
What ever makes you think that conservatives who efficiently manage their time don’t usually find the BB very recreational. AND since we conservatives can be self employed our time is our own we don’t have bosses to report to because we pay our own way.
Not necessarily on the dole just because we get paid enough to have free time.
Above reference your quote and even you will clearly see the reason you find us all so strange.
You lump the horse in as property…and we donlt consider them property but a member of our family that brings us good sport so we are willing to care for them.
The obvious difference is that the horse is a live being born free and who puts up with us by reward and not punishment. You cannot park a horse in your driveway or at an airport. It is not a mechanical and unfeeling object which can be simply disposed of if your are bored by tossing it in the dump.
As a live animal it’s value is calculated differently as to perishability. And therefore yes insurance companies could come to the conclusion that the risk of total destruction is too big a risk to be insured. Just as a fireman is a bigger risk than a secretary.
This rule seems to me to have been created to have some form of control over the people who are doing exactly what PV & BW’s clients are doing. So why is it not being enforced? Does it HAVE to be from a protest? If so, does there need to be a fund to help with the protest fee?
I’ll sign…I don’t want any of them back. Although it sounds like PV does ok even under suspension.
Ladies - I think you are forgetting that killing a horse for the insurance money is INSURANCE FRAUD - which is a Federal Offense! Slight difference legally.
As far as sending horses to slaughter - I’m not supportive of people who do this. They can have a horse put down (though in the case of insured horses they will probably NOT receive a pay out) in a humane manner and paying to have the horse buried, cremated or disposed of properly. NOW - that involves money OUT - and no MONEY IN. But for the life of me - I can’t respect a person who feels getting about $180+/- less the transport to send a horse to the killers is such a cash windfall.
Insurance Fraud is it’s own category and clearly shows a level of character that is well below the norm - IMHO. I always wonder when people have done this - what else have they done?
We can understand that you want to what is best for you. We are not saying anything about you. You need to understand that a good many people feel very passionately against someone who has admitted and been convicted of hiring someone to fake and accident so as to collect insrance; and particularly since there was need to destray in pain a perfectly good resalable horse.
What I care about is tht there needss to a time and place where horse people, sportsmen say you made the decision and now you are personna non grata in the the competion level of the horse world.
I think there are many excelent trainers who never resorted to that remedy. That makes them better trainers in my book of ethics than PV.
We have a trainer in New Jersey a good competitor and a vry nice man with his own fan club as well and he was accused of molesting his students. He claims he is innocent as well. BUT, he is forbidden to be anywhere in the proximity of children. No permanent physical damage was done to any child.
I am not sure if he ever was convicted but he has never once tried to bypass that rule of the court. I would be inclined to believe in his remorse but not his innocense.
Yes! Mikes MCS I have been watching the process. The Austrian Team was also as a result tested for substances and their quarters searched and a lot of items have been impounded.
The Team complained because they said that the search and interogation caused them to be not able to perform and the Team as a result was last in the Competition. I think this will be a very good test case for just how much authority the IOC has and how responsible an NGB might be for infractions of the rules.
“Are there no workhouses?!”…apologies to Charles Dickins. I couldn’t resist.
I have seen it, and never wish to see it again.
Sheila, honestly you are my new best friend… (where is that icon with the fluttering eyelashes when you need it)… 
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