They are not directed to anyone personally. If you check out the thread in off course there is a link to the tshirts. You will see the logo is a general statement. I hope this clears things up for you.
We definitely could consider it. And, I will take the idea to the Leadership Council and get some legal feedback. I would not be worried if the Federation were doing it as well but I’m not sure what the legal ramifications might be if they decided to make a test case. It’s something I definitely will explore.
If we find it is practical and feasible for us to be first you can bet I’d be interested. There are more of us than there of them and it could be a reason for people to support usAHSA. It is certainly worth exploring.
Any court proceeding is public, but you’d have to be in Chicago and go down to the Dirksen Federal Building to see the transcripts. I have no idea about AHSA/USEF hearings, though.
Nutshell version:
Nothing prevents them from training, selling, conducting business, etc. on their own property - or in fact ANYWHERE other than the grounds of rated shows.
And again just as a general observation, it’s very easy to make it look on paper like you don’t own a horse that you DO own. You can, for example, set up an LLC (or a series of LLC’s, or a combination of LLC’s and trusts, or whatever) to own it for you, or “sell” it to someone for a dollar but under the terms of a sale contract that’s more like a lease… All kinds of stuff you can do, really, if so inclined. And that’s all perfectly legal, as well. Loads of people do it for reasons that are NOT necessarily nefarious - to get a tax break for example.
Few will have the greatness to bend history itself; but each of us can work to change a small portion of events, and in the total; of all those acts will be written the history of this generation.
Robert F. Kennedy
I’m sorry BD but you cannot equate what PV and the others did to EL’s issues. No where near close. I could forgive EL for his problems, those are personal problems. He didn’t have a horse killed. Sorry not the same
Duffy, my mother and yours may have been twins! Mine said “Rude, crude, and socially unacceptable”
Originally posted by Jane:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by BaliBandido:
Oh and Jane, try to keep up.
Keep what up? I can barely understand your points most of the time, and I know it’s not me. 
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
There were points? 
Originally posted by silver:
If the petition is the one I saw quoted elsewhere with all the verbage about “little people” and you really want more people to sign it you need to reword it. I might send a letter to USEF but I wouldn’t sign that, it sounds pretty childish to me.
Get a proper "We the undersigned oppose the reinstatement of XXX for the following reasons… " and I’ll sign it. I’m guessing a lot of people feel the same way, especially professionals.
You obviously didn’t read the petition. There is no mention of little people anywhere in it. It’s very well crafted (thank you WA)
Follow the link, READ it for yourself and sign if you agree.
http://www.petitiononline.com/valliere/petition.html
Anthem, I have no doubt that you are intelligent and succsessful. And I am certain that there is indeed considerable legal counsel involved, that does not suprise me one iota.
I wonder though, if you would be as inclined to forgive if it was Barney Ward’s turn to re-apply, or George Lindemann’s, or Marion Hulick. Perhaps because I was involved with many of these people before these horrible things happened, I have a different perspective than you.
Originally posted by ss3777:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>then petition for a Rule Change—they did not give any of these people a “lifetime ban”.
Would you support such a petition? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
yes, IF it also tightened up the drug sampling of both riders and horses, and stopped the legalized medication that goes on now that keeps sore horses in the game just because some lady or parent wants to continue to “play” at being a rider.
Oh, so that is what a troll smells like. 
Originally posted by JuniorJumper01:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by Jodes, Aefvue Farms Certified Bartender:
You can defend him all day long, but it’s you then who has to put your head on the pillow at night knowing you come on here and defend a known horse killer.
I sleep well at night, thanks. And it’s people like yourself that know him ONLY as a “horse killer.” You can forgive, but no one is asking you to forget. Unless you’re so below forgiveness that you’re going to harbor hostility towards everyone who makes a publicly exposed mistake. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
There is no forgiveness for someone who has killed a horse to line his pockets. Stop trying to justify yourself.
Same Hearing Committee meeting at which PV and others were suspended:
[I]This is official notice of the following action taken by the Hearing Committee of the American Horse Shows Association following a meeting held on April 9-10, 1997, in the association’s New York City offices:
MR. JAMES HEINSOHN, of Glenview, IL violated Rule III, Article 302.6 and Rule VII, Article 702(a), (d), and (f) of this association, in that he was convicted of having participated in a plan or conspiracy to commit acts of cruelty or abuse to a horse and the conduct underlying his conviction is deemed improper, unethical, dishonest, unsportsmanlike or intemperate, or prejudicial to the best interests of the Association. In considering an appropriate penalty for the violation by MR. HEINSOHN, the panel members took into consideration that he hired a killer for the horse Pet of the Year, which received an electrical shock that caused its back to be broken and led to it being euthanized, as part of a scheme to defraud an insurance company, and that the evidence presented at the hearing established that death by electrocution causes pain to the horse. Additionally, there was evidence that MR. HEINSOHN had arranged for the killing of another horse owned by him, Jatomic Streaker, which was hit on the head with a sledgehammer. For his violation of the rules as charged, the committee determined pursuant to the provisions of Rule III, Article 302.6 and Rule VII, Article 703.1(b), © and (f), that effective immediately and until further notice, MR. HEINSOHN is hereby expelled from membership in the AHSA and denied all the privileges of membership including the ability to hold or exercise office in the association, attend or participate in association meetings, hold license(s) as an AHSA or FEI official, compete in international competitions or receive AHSA automatic insurance coverages or participate in AHSA group insurance programs and is found not in good standing and he and all horses owned, leased, or of any partnership, corporation or stable of his are suspended from competing or taking any part whatsoever in Recognized competitions and he is excluded from all competition grounds during Recognized competitions as an exhibitor, participant, or spectator. The panel members also directed that the Hearing Committee retains jurisdiction over this matter, and MR. HEINSOHN may not apply to the Association for reinstatement any sooner than 15 years from the date he first became suspended by the Association on account of his indictment for the crime in question and then only based upon affirmative proof of total rehabilitation, including proof that he has taken steps to reform himself and has performed community service to benefit the welfare of horses. [/I]
Hugi alleged he SAW Jatomic Streaker killed by beating to death with a sledgehammer, but the way the HC words it, it doesn’t seem like they are 100% convinced.
I’m thoroughly enjoying reading this thread all of the sudden!
I recall seeing his name on a list of animal chiropractors recently, just went back and found it. If you scroll down to ILL area you’ll find him, where he’s listed as a DVM.
Do you think he recites a disclaimer to first time clients?
I love the idea of a trophy.
LeesaM. These people were convicted of crimes against people.
Thanks, Nancy - I figured it out - I am number 1889.
Give that perfect grey pony a kiss on the nose from me 
Originally posted by Showponymom:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”> Don’t let the Big “Fawg’s” fool you!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
