We didn’t even know about Nancy Banfield’s application for reinstatement, let alone its acceptance, until someone found it…
If victim’s families show up at parole hearings they make sure the person is not paroled, no matter their stellar prison behavior.
I do not want anyone who perpetrated this crime against horses and the insurance companies reinstated. It’s not just Paul.
He made his decision, he is responsible for his past behavior, not us, but we don’t have to have him back either. There are always consequences to choices we make; he does not deserve to be a member of the USEF. He had the very being that made him what he was killed, for insurance money when it could have been sold to someone else. He disrespected the animal on whose back he made his name and reputation. Had he pursued this mistake as an honest horseman he would have sold the horse at a loss, he could have taken a tax deduction since he was in the business of making a living doing this, or donated it to a college riding program or found it another job doing something it enjoyed, because the horses come first. From where I sit, it appears that he could not do this because he believed his own hype that he was infallible, perfect, could never be wrong about a horse. He chose this path; no one forced him to do it. A person with a conscience wouldn’t even ask to be reinstated or assume they could come back they would be too embarrassed.
The advertisments touting his good works make me even more suspect. A person does charitable deeds because it’s the right thing to do not to make themselves look good nor do they inform the world about it via advertisments. To head you supporters of PV off at the pass, I’m sure it’s a client or two that pays for these homages to Paul’s charitable works, it still does not take away the stench of self promotion and lack of humility. It cheapens anything he has done, because it just proves it’s not from the kindness of his heart they are just a means to an end, his own glorification and the mistaken belief that this buys him redemption. Some things just aren’t for sale.
.
Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by Linus:
I think it’s a good point that PV didn’t kill other people’s horses, without their consent, so I find Renn/aissance’s post (however well-written) completely off base.
Let me put my twist, as a breeder, on Renn’s post then…
But imagine that this horse was your horse. <span class=“ev_code_BLUE”>insert: a horse that I bred</span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It would be emotionally devastating to any horseperson – regardless of their relationship to the horse. I get that, trust me. But any time you sell a horse, you take the risk that (s)he’ll end up in less than desirable circumstances. If you don’t want to take that risk with any of your “babies,” don’t sell them.
Do you know that every horse you’ve ever bred is happy, healthy, and well cared for? You do realize that there are far more likely threats – abuse, starvation, inadequate care – to the horses you’ve bred than the hypothetical insurance killing.
Honestly, I think those against reinstatement will get farther with arguments based in logic than they will with such blatant appeals to emotion. Let’s find rules- and fact-based reasons why PV should not be reinstated, and work within the system to prevent this, rather than wasting our time imagining all the ways PV might have hurt our babies 10 years ago and how outraged we would be.
I can “forgive” those who voted for GW
You’re a better man than I am, Gunga Din.
Well Harry in truth it is then a mutual respect. I particularly admire the way you make your points with so few words. I get annoyed with myself for being too wordy.
If by the time you are my age you don’t have convictions and you still don’t know what you believe it could be tragic. I doubt St. Peter at the gate is interested in a debate.
Oh! Good Lord there are not enough colors for all the causes to have separate color. Ours is red for the blood spilled by innocent horses. It says No Reinstatement in white letters. I’m certain white is also controversial.
We discussed it and we have them. I don’t think that Aids Awareness is going to suffer an identity crisis by sharing the color red with our fallen horses. The red in our flag is for the blood spilled to protect freedom.
For every good cause there are always a thousand reasons to stay inactive if that’s what you want.
Totally agree on both points, LH.
As to Point One: We are NOT going to know if PV or any of the others applies for reinstatement, any more than we knew when Nancy Banfield did. So the only alternative we’ve got, at least at this point, is to go by the dates upon which each one becomes eligible to apply, and make sure our petitions and/or letters are sent to the Committee in advance of that date…
As to Point Two: I completely agree that Erin has done and is doing a magnificent job, and it redounds to COTH’s credit that they have let us come and play here.
So, thanks very much indeed to both COTH and especially Erin, who we all - on BOTH sides - have been running ragged for quite some time!!
How must he have felt, letting down friends, family, clients, kids…???
Someone that had that kind of feelings for others would have never entertained the thought of killing a horse for money. A tiger does not change his stripes - he just gets more cunning. He was willing to do this because of greed & status. He is still protecting his “status” & showing his greed by staying involved with horses. A remorseful person would have gone to work in a different occupation to not have to keep hurting “his” victims again and again.
Does anyone have a pic of Roseau Platiere? I’d like to see a picture of him/her. I would like to think this petition makes Roseau Platiere’s death not completely meaningless. I’ve tried searching but it only finds articles related to PV. 
I doubt that sort would be at all interested in the smaller low rated shows. They’re after the Stadium Jumping Ratings and FEI approvals for the big money and points to qualify for the European Shows.
But snowy couldn’t you do a rule that would apply to unrated usAHSA shows. I know the likelyhood of any of them showing is 0% but it might set a precedent?
Thank you I just received your order. They will be in the mail tomorrow. Enjoy! We are invincible.
If the petition is the one I saw quoted elsewhere with all the verbage about “little people” and you really want more people to sign it you need to reword it. I might send a letter to USEF but I wouldn’t sign that, it sounds pretty childish to me.
Get a proper "We the undersigned oppose the reinstatement of XXX for the following reasons… " and I’ll sign it. I’m guessing a lot of people feel the same way, especially professionals.
I would say that 704.6 and .7 leave it open to the USEF to deciding if the intent of 702 and 704 was violated, even if the letter of 704 was followed. I don’t think it is as broad as “the best interests of the USEF”.
Not one Huckleburg. It’s gotta say something for the guy that no one associated with PV can bring themselves to sign.
Wow, I have to say that this statement really boggles my mind. Do you mean currently associated or ever? I believe I have seen at least one pro that has signed that has been associated. But, hey maybe I am wrong.
A reminder that I have empty envelopes and just a few of the first batch of bracelets.
For the clothing and other trivia you might enjoy wearing we have some very classy shirts and other products at:[B]
http://www.cafepress.com/norein
and bracelets at:
http://www.usahsa.org/Bracelets_for_Sale.htm[/B]
Has anyone who goes to horse shows noticed how many people are NOT wearing any of this stupid crap?
In all seriousness, don’t you think that someone who supports the heart association but doesnt support your cause might have a problem with the lookalike bracelets?
Originally posted by xegeba:
is embezzles a word… Bali? Correct that usage.
I would never presume to correct you, xegeba. Buh bye!
Originally posted by C.Boylen:
Snowbird, no one is disputing the fact that horse businesses can write off losses. The point was that the average horse owner does not operate as a business. The only one making this part of the debate case-specific is you.
And, the specifics of this case do NOT involve the “average horse owner.” PV was, and is, a “professional” for tax purposes. Therefore, Snowy’s argument is completely valid.
I’m really still amazed at how NONE of Paul’s supporters can offer a REAL argument in his favor. So far the only defense seems to be distraction from the facts. PV admitted to paying someone to kill his horse so that he could defraud an insurance company.
This does NOT reconcile with the USEF’s own mission statement:
As the National Governing Body (NGB) of Equestrian Sport in the United States we will inspire, encourage interest in, and regulate equestrian competition by ensuring the safety and well-being of horses, regardless of value or competitive level; ensure the enforcement of fair and equitable rules and procedures up to and including the preparation for the Olympic Games; and, endeavor to advance the level of horsemanship in the United States.
And, never will.
Seb
Originally posted by Snowbird:
That’s super Zorro and I expect by Monday to have the Pay Pal Link up for anyone who wants a red “No-Reinstatement bracelet” or to make a donation to the fund. I can be emailed or phoned for credit cards and the address is on the usAHSA.org web site.
Thanks to Harry I’ve looked up the procedures and we should be able to take the credit cards or direct withdrawal through PayPal. I’ve made a donation button so it should be tax deductable. If you make a deduction which is tax deductible you cannot get anything back like the bracelet which has a value.
I hope you all haven’t forgotten the idea of tying red ribbons at every show you attend to let people know the project has great public “grassroots” support.
who gets the money you are collecting? or is this just a profit venture for you?
Originally posted by Serah:
I just don’t understand, why, when you say your focus is for these poor horses that died, why instead of focusing this campaign on horses that are already dead, people that have already been sentenced…WHY dont you turn the focus on things that are still happening… Horses that are STILL being killed for insurance money? Veterinarians that are still illegally signing Death Certificates??? It’s beginning to look like there is a personal grudge behind all this, Why dont you focus on saving horses that are still alive? Preventing this from reoccuring??
Serah, the first, simplest and most obvious step toward deterring people from this kind of behavior is, in my opinion, to make it clear to USEF that we’re not going to tolerate it.
The rules probably DO need to be changed. But these things take time - and the first thing we’ve got to be able to do is demonstrate that there is sufficiently strong feeling that such a rule change would be WIDELY supported.
Then it’s up to USEF to figure out how to make that happen. And believe me, after talks w/ several people there about horse abuse last year, I still believe they are racking their brains to the fullest trying to figure out something that would actually work.
You have to understand that sometimes baby steps are necessary in order to get where you eventually want to go.
Hope that makes sense.
