Politics makes for strange bedfellows…(forgot who said this one but it is appropriate here)
jn, I most certainly believe your and mwe’s accounts of your experiences, among many others.
My post was just a response to the “you have to be at the upper levels to understand or have all the facts, all posters are just gossipers” attitudes that many PV supporters project. 
Schyler, I’m with you. But not because of PV’s (Who I know by reputation only) actions of the past, but because what I see here amounts to a veiled attempt to influence the Hearing Committee, and deny PV his due process. Courts of law try to prevent “mob influence” by giving high profile defendants such protection as change of venue and voire dire in jury selection. You can be sure that when this issue comes before a Hearing Panel, all sides of the issue will be weighed…with public opinion being one of them. But I find it unbelievably mean spirited for a group of (well meaning) horse lovers to try to skew the process by inciting a moblike reaction.
I am as mushy about horses as any of you, and have a pasture full of old retired friends who serve no purpose, eat the most expensive, high protein soft gruel that can be concocted for their toothless enjoyment, and enjoy a nice warm stall at night ( that could be occupied by a useful saleable horse) to prove it. I cannot imagine killing a horse because of convenience. But, I also hope that I never reach a point where I feel that a person, who has “served his time”, displayed remorse, and who clearly has much to offer, should be denied a fair and impartial shot at the hearing process.
I really am not privy to all the facts of this issue…and neither are any of us who were
I am person who is involved in the criminal justice system on a daily basis and I see both sides of cases including the impact on the subject and his family. I am also a passionate horsewoman and this crime to those who love horses creates the same type of emotional response that child molestors or killers evoke in society in general.
The facts, stripped of the emotion, are that PV was suspended and could request reinstatment if he could prove rehabilitation and that he has provided community service to benefit the welfare of horses. I don’t think anyone can argue effectively that he hasn’t complied with those requirements so the only argument left is that he should be expelled for life with no hope of ever being reinstated simply because of the horrific nature of the original offense and that in many minds, can never, not even in a million years ever be forgiven.
My question to each member of this board who has a strong opinion on this subject is : What would you rule if you were the sole judge and are charged with meting out justice after reviewing the past 10 years and PV’s behavior? Do you wipe out what he was told 10 years ago to encourage his charitable activities and rehabilitation and tell him it was all in vain and he will NEVER be reinstated or given an opportunity to rejoin the show horse community officially?
Every day I deal with criminals who do really vicious things to other human beings and it is just another day at the office. Battery, Aggravated Assault, Rape and even Murder. Most of these criminals are sentenced, many times to probation for a first offense and they re-enter society none the worse for wear for the most part. We are USED to man’s inhumanity to man and that is almost “accepted”…however, man’s inhumanity to a horse to a horseperson sends us over the edge into a state of complete unforgiveness.
While I agree that PV’s crime is horrible I also see the value in that through his cooperation he made it possible to take out the entire ring of conspirators. This does have value that many of you cannot appreciate if you haven’t seen how many times offenders get clean away with crimes because no one will do the dirty work of a CI. Right now I could take you on a tour of my county and tell you the names of the biggest crack dealers and even which houses have cooking pots making crack every day. I can take you “THE HILL” where sentinels are watching and it is veritable enclave of houses of dope dealers that the cops want NOTHING to do with. Those folks have guns and it would be a war to go in there and no one wants to be the CI to take those crowds out.
PV’s role in making that case happen and so many people being convicted was instrumental in saving many horses that would have potentially died in the future. That has value and was considered by the board as it should have been.
At some point, every person who has ever made a mistake should have an opportunity to start over and my question is: Does PV ever get that chance?
By the way…I don’t have any connections to the man whatsoever and no dog in the fight.
anthem, please clarify your question:
In what way would you offer an apology considering your audience?
I’d be willing to donate toward a PI to get proof…
Here here, Race!!! 
To be honest I’m not sure who they are, Harry - any info?
Yes, I have to say, if it is going on all the time, then by all means, let’s drop the issue, and petition him back in. This insurance fraud will be as popular as Hermes Birkins and Prada purses in no time at all.
The USEF also has two wonderful catch alls when they choose to use them.
“in the best interests of the sport and the Federation”
I think the reason no compaints are filed is because they don’t want to penalize some innocent soul who hasn’t a clue and believes what they have been told. This makes the wrong person guilty.
The issue is PV can apply to be re-instated and is technically probably sitting just on the line with lots of legal advice. Does he have to prove he has reformed? And, how does someone who disagrees get the oppotunity to produce the evidence?
I believe the word in the Rules is “REFORMATION” not Rehabilitation. I think to have reformed is much more stringent. If I’m wrong I know I shall be corrected.
Originally posted by Sherry3313 Groom of Winners Aefvue Farms:
Many businesses keep 2 sets of “books” (financial records). One set is the actual financial records of that business. The other set is the not-so-actual financial records.
The USEF would have no way of knowing for sure which set of “books” they were seeing, should they ask for financial records. I’m sure they and their legal team are well aware of this practice.
I think someone has been watching too much television…
Aunt Esther, national and international Purse Champion, finds it important that people posting on this thread pay close attention to the moderator.
Aunt Esther is impressed with the awareness that the No Reinstatement people have managed to create, and she thinks it would be exceptionally unfortunate that this discussion venue would be closed because some No Reinstatement people cannot mind their P’s and Q’s.
At this point in time, people who run rescues, the people who volunteer for CANTER, the people who keep their aging animals comfortable in warm barns with plenty of feed, they are the heroes.
They can give themselves their own moral brownie points. I’d say they should get none in terms of reinstatement matters, since it’s hard to prove whether they did it to save themselves or to come clean and be honest.
I’m always truly amazed that people USE these trainers and justify it to themselves. I wouldn’t sell manure to a person who did business with a person who was responsible for harm to horses. And I’m DAMN sure I wouldn’t sell a horse to them. For them it’s ALL ABOUT THE MONEY & WINNING - NOTHING ELSE.
What’s that old saying?
“You lay down with dogs …you get up with fleas?”
Quite the contrary, Erin!!! As you pointed out, many of us are on good “terms” with the posters on here who support Mr. Valliere, although we may not agree with them in this case. I too am glad to see it has remained to be a discussion, as I am sure we all are. It is agreed in full that all of us on here are passionate about our horses and our sport, and we can agree on that. I for one would definitely not do business with him in any way, but will not deny the fact that he has some wonderful horses in his care. Do I think he is capable of lapsing into the same behavior that got him where he is today - indeed I do. Can I offer proof, no, of course not. I respect his marketing genius and his apparent transformation, and respect the rights of those who chose to work with him. I question how they can, but it is their choice, not mine.
Originally posted by FuzzyLogic:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by horse_poor:
So just because it does not say they area USEF member does not mean they are not.[QUOTE]
So the USEF committee have to be psychics? or just assume everyone who signed is a member? 
[QUOTE]I have said it before and will say it again”"I will be highly pissed if any of them get reinstated and I paid money to be lumped into an organization along side them.
Should I be pissed that I paid money to be lumped into the same organization as you and a few others? 
Geez, why don’t you guys start another petition and ask the USEF to split memberships into two catagories and keep all the crazies in one? I’ll sign that one! 
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>Now THAT was humor! We should start a petition!
Buelllllllllerrrrrrrrr?
Yes, Snowy, thank you too. Bracelets were received, people are loving them.
