The "NO REINSTATEMENT" thread.

[Snowbird]

I got them from the same place but I ordered 200 so it cost $350.00 plus shipping express. I wouldn’t suggest buying them without the white second color. The recessed print is almost invisible as far as being able to read it. It’s well worth the extra $.25.

There is another place where you can get them silk screened and they’re cheaper but I haven’t had time to find it again.

Anyway please let me know who wants them. I did receive two checks but they don’t request any bracelets so I put that into the fund.

[Duffy]

Because different criminals come up for possible reinstatement at different times. It’s been advised that they need to be addressed separately.

[War_Admiral]

It certainly doesn’t promote the sport as a good environment for people’s children…

Certainly seems to me to provide information that an interested incoming parent would care to know, though.

I really think, whatever your feelings on this issue, that everyone needs to take a step back and look at this type of publicity from the view of the general public. I don’t think it’s doing our sport and industry any favors.

What I fail to understand is why sweeping the issue under the carpet at the very time these people are becoming eligible for reinstatement is perceived as “in the best interest of equestrian sport”.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this, Chanda, sorry.

Snowbird, cool, thanks, I’ll add that. I just e-mailed you BTW.

[shade]

For ANY of them to be re-instated they would have to do a heck of alot more than “attempt” to contribute. A couple of things come to mind. Maybe taking in a couple of rescue horses, taking on a poor barn rat and giving them the opportunity they would never have had, volunteering at a horse rescue or theraputic facility. I would look for contributions to the horse community that are not in the mainstream, donating your lesson money does not constitute contributing to the horse community. I just don’t see where any of them have given back to the horse community. All they have done is make money for themselves. I am not singling out PV, I am talking about ALL of them. But PV is up to APPLY for reinstatement very soon so he unfortunately is at the center of this issue. I do commend PV for his efforts to help the animals of the hurricane. But I also know there are many many other horsemen that gave their time in the effort also.

[jn1193]

I’ve really tried to hold off commenting on this thread because I’ve commented on similar ones before, but, sorry, Chandra, I was a pro and on the circuit at the time all of this was going on and I heard firsthand these guys talk and joke about what they were doing. It was horrifying standing at the in-gate or being at a bar and hearing them talk about setting up deals to kill horses. PV might have been “sorry” but it was the sorry of a thief who wasn’t sorry that he stole, but was very, very sorry he got caught.

None of these guys had the least bit of remorse for killing the horses. They only were upset they got caught for it. For them, it was just business. A horse was a problem, a client was thinking about leaving. The horse dies, no more problem. You find the client a new horse, make another commission, take the new horse in on full training. Bada bing, bada boom.

Once the tax laws changed in 1987, these guys had to find an alternative to the donate scam. And, killing the horses was more efficient and easier. It was a business move. That cold-blooded.

PV may seem to some to be very sincere, but ask yourself if you would trust one of your horses in his hands, particularly if that horse turned out to be less than stellar. Would you trust a man with a history of killing problem horses with your horse? Paul got caught for one, so maybe. But what about Barney? Where should the line on the number of horses killed be drawn where you would say, oops, maybe I shouldn’t send my horse to that trainer? Maybe it’s kind of like saying, gee, do I want my child taught by someone convicted of being a sexual predator, after all, he was only caught for one offense.

Someone said earlier that reinstatement is not about these people as individuals, it’s about what is best for the industry and that’s true. it’s time to just say no.

[Snowbird]

Having been down this road several times I find it invigorating that there are some people left who are so passionate about the treatment of horses and the punitive measures not employed by our Federation.

I feel the same way about all convicted felons. They don’t belong in our sport. I sent a letter to John Long requesting he use existing rules to suspend from particiaption at any horse show Joe Plemmons. He sat on National TV discussing how he had shot Helen Brach twice in the head and how he had disposed of the body. He winters at Wellington to sell horses. Her crime? She was going to turn the crooked horse dealers in to the DA. I am still waiting for a reply.

Then we have Wally Holly who I believe has been suspended but ignores it and is frequently seen at shows in the company of his girlfriend who is a Tack Shop vendor. We have people who although they know Barney Ward is in disguise but present at a horse plead for forgiveness for him as well.

So where do you all want to draw the line? The Drugs and Medications Committee tried several times to tighten the drug rules but there was a huge cry from our leading trainers that it was unfair and unkind to the horses to have them clean of drugs. Isn’t it interesting that they seriously believe they should be allowed to drug and medicate in other ways horses at the lower levels but then suddenly they have to go clean for an FEI Class. Doesn’t that make you wonder?

Does anyone remember the the dirty money scandal? it seems only at the hunter shows the money is so loaded with cocaine that the horses get it second hand and tested positive. I think someone even claimed that a horse could test positive if they followed a horse in the same stall even just for a few minutes. Imagine that? I heard the amazement by Dr.Lengel when there was no dirty money at the Arabian Shows and only at our Hunter Jumper Shows.

The conclusion was that the current testing methods are too good and they find even little amounts in the system of the horses which is always accidental. So why not forgive PV and Barney Ward afterall they have both repented. They’re really nice guys and they have a lot of important friends.

It’s just us “little people” who get all bent out of shape because we don’t know them. And who is there that even cares what we all think?

[radio_talk_Aefvue_Fa]

Depends on why they squealed. To save themselves, no. To save the horses, yes.

[Snowbird]

I know that is the logical conclusion. I have not yet become delusional.

But! damn if I can stop trying to bring back honor and good sport. I’m just too old a dog to learn new tricks.

Like Einstein, I know there is way and an answer and I just haven’t found it yet. Maybe if you twist the arguments around long enough we can make it work for us.

For example USEF has no supeona powers but every show is required to produce all of its records and every entry form for three years.

People have been convicted by the Hearing Board because they couldn’t prove their innocence in the past. So maybe, we won’t win the point but maybe it’s like catching the flasher in the subway with his fly open. Maybe we can expose the holes in the system.

[Andrew]

Too bad they can’t “catch” one of the clients, and convince them to wear a wire

hmmm THAT sounds familiar

[17hTBmare]

Originally posted by anthem35:
During the past two weeks in Wellie,
I have had the pleaseure of having dinner on 3 separate occassions with 3 BIG name judges…
Where I was asked the inevitable question that we all seem get to when meeting newcomers “Who do you train with?”

Each time, upon hearing the I train with Paul, the response was the same.

“Good Man, Great trainer. We will be happy to see him back at the ring”.
In two cases, the trainers and either their children, or family, trained with him currently.

Disgraceful, but then you know, birds of a feather flock together…

[Snowbird]

Big Dawg these companies only deal in primary colors. Sienna is a mixed color and they would produce a brown which look like a dark orange.

This is for the braclets only. If you all want to use Sienna for the ribbons that would be fine with me. Or some mix that suits everyone would be fine too.

Serah to do that you have to have people who are willing to bring charges against them. The idea is to go after the worst of the lot first. Those convicted and who confessed to their guilt.

I have suggested that we could go for a Rule Change which would require that anyone whose horse tested positive for drugs have those results sent to the District Attorney in the County and State where the incident happened.

What do you think the possibility of that is as to getting it approved and passed?

[Racetb_Aefvue_Farm_B]

3. acknowledgement of the pain he has caused all involved in this industry

Especially owners who then had to deal with soaring insurance premiums, and painful, invasive investigations when their beloved animals died from actual colic, etc.

[meadow_lark]

Insurance premiums are based on two main factors–losses experienced by the ins company and yield on their invested $. And it also depends on how many lines of insurance they are in as well as what geographic areas–you don’t want to just insure homes in Fla!

[anthem35]

Originally posted by radio talk Aefvue Farms RCA:
You really want to make this personal instead of sticking to the issue, don’t you anthem35. That is what that post was about. The issue, not a personal vendetta against PV. The issue being, if somehow we have lost it, is that many of us believe there should be no-reinstatement for these perpetrators. And that people have already slipped back into the sport. Thus we all need to be very aware when someone comes up for APPYING for re-instatement.

Wait…hang on…

WHAT HAVE I EVER DONE to make this personal???

I have had no less than 10 of you anti-PVers e-mail me personally the nastiest letters I have ever gotten.

I have been NOTHING but respectful to EVERYONE.

Please, I would like to know…

[harryjohnson_Aefvue]

Well said, Yours Truly, and I also agree that no apology is better than an empty one.

[xegeba]

Posted Feb. 13, 2006 12:58 AM

Most horse traders lie about the horses for sale which is why it is still a capital offense to sell a crooked horse and get caught. That’s can be the “death penalty” if anyone chooses to enforce the law still on the book

I might not mind having dinner with them or chatting but they don’t belong on the show grounds of our NGB; our US
[/quote]

Admirable. LIKES IT.

[anthem35]

Marcella =

[xegeba]

So far we have been given no good reason why the conviction of anyone should be approved and the only evidence is the legal paper trail.

perhaps you can re-word this one for me.

[shade]

PV is only allowed to APPLY for reinstatement. His sentence was suspension from the USEF for 10 yrs after which he may apply for reinstatement if he so desires. I don’t know why the PV supporters think he has served his sentence completely. You also can look at it as someone who is up for parole and the victums of the crime are allowed to attend the parole hearing and voice their opinions as to why they do not think this person should be paroled.

[harryjohnson_Aefvue]

I don’t think one needs to show, have judged, or sit on a committee to know that fraud is wrong, that insurance fraud drives the costs up for all horse owners, and that killing a horse to assuage one’s ego is wrong.