Many businesses keep 2 sets of “books” (financial records). One set is the actual financial records of that business. The other set is the not-so-actual financial records.
The USEF would have no way of knowing for sure which set of “books” they were seeing, should they ask for financial records. I’m sure they and their legal team are well aware of this practice.
Originally posted by Nationalvelvet:
I REALLY would like to see who in our industry has signed this petition…but when I try to access this area, it states I should contact the owner of the page.
Any suggestions, anyone?
Be very suspicious of those who must operate in secrecy!
if someone who was found guilty like PV, given a life suspension, then found to be okay to come back to the fold. It really would not be a smart move on the USEF’s part what so ever. no
Unfortunatley he was not given a life suspension, it is up this coming April. With USEF you never know and he has alot big time people still friendly with him.
Originally posted by Yours Truly:
Of course there are ways for him to apologize, if an apology reflects his true feelings: ads in The Chronicle, discussion during interviews, websites, etc.
…But here’s food for thought: if he DID apologize publicly, dollars to doughnuts there would be a massive debate over whether he really means it.
Perhaps someone with a better memory than mine can answer this… as, at the time this was really blowing up, I gave a friend all my COTHs with the related stories, the infamous SI and so forth so she could write some sort of current affairs/ethics paper about it.
Did anyone involved, back then, issue any sort of statement recognizing the impact that this had? And the people, young riders who may’ve had respect or a degree of admiration for them up until…? I don’t really recall anyone involved speaking publicly and candidly about it at the time.
Taking a quick break from a MOUNTAIN of work here…
I want to address the sense of “why bother” that I see cropping up.
I can understand the frustration; I can understand the feeling that it won’t make things any different for the people who are suspended; I can understand all of it. I cannot understand condoning the actions, nor can I accept that it’s so widespread as to be generally accepted to defraud insurance companies by maiming or killing an innocent animal.
But the MOST important reason, for me, that I put some time into this is simple: I want to be able to answer with honesty, to anyone who asks, that I truly do love my sport and my horse, and that I respect the effort that goes into it.
I cannot respect it if I think that it is ONLY populated by people with no concern or love for the animals, if I think that all trainers are out to win at any cost and that all owners will rip off insurors in a heartbeat. And if I don’t believe that, then I feel I have an obligation to support my beliefs with action.
Will PV apply to reinstated? I don’t know. Will he be reinstated if he does apply? Again, I don’t know. I know that right now, I have some differences of opinion with USEF, and am choosing to put my support and money elsewhere…but whether or not I join again WILL in part be determined by how they treat this issue should it arise. The one reinstatement - of which I was unaware until the boards mentioned it - already has me deeply concerned.
Again…it’s not a personal vendetta against anyone. I wouldn’t know any of these people if I fell over them. BUT, I do NOT respect what they did. And I do believe that actions have consequences, and some of those consequences are lifelong. I can see that something to feel sorry about (that they have to live under a cloud, as it were), or as a shame, or as anything I want…but the consequences remain.
The people involved in the horse killing scandals were not unaware of the illegality of their actions, regardless of how THEY viewed the morality of them, and they should not have been unaware of the fact that those actions carried consequences that could follow them for life. They made a choice, perhaps one they truly regret, but whether or not they’d make the same choice today doesn’t change the past. They did what they did, and have to live with it.
The sport, however, does NOT need to accept what they did. We don’t like to think this today, but some things are NOT acceptable, nor are the forgettable (not “forgiveable” because that is not for me to judge). It is because of that belief that I support No Reinstatement. Because if we all just throw up our hands and say “what’s the use” we will imo have lost not just the respect of those outside our sport - who would be justified in wondering that such a thing isn’t seen as horrific - but we would lose our self-respect, too.
Scout, I do apologize, but I have seen instances where this has happened, indeed on both sides of the fence.
The website is a good idea, but for people to actually come across it is another thing. One thing that might work, particularly in the WPB area is for groups to contact local businesses, a community awareness sort of thing, and have the bracelets placed in stores. The local ASPCA is often tireless, and would have local support with contacts in that area, the area where the shows are held, which despite giving safe haven to O.J. Simpson might be rather suprised to know of the goings on at their much touted Winter Festival. A local investigative reporter might like to have the scoop on the story and the bracelets…
you lose. You did not correctly answer the “what does NSBC” question. Perhaps you would have better luck on http://www.scaredmonkeys.com…. They love your type of posting.
PS, Sarabeck, I can see you’ve signed up specifically for your ALL CAPS RANT, so just a suggestion moving forward: take your finger off the Caps Lock key. It makes our eyes bleed.
The skating situation is also not unrelated to our problems in that we have seen some judges who start a horse with a high score based on it’s history and then add points or subtract points based on that day’s performance.
So some horses started the class with a score of say 80 and others that were unknown started with a score of 40. I believe that happened in Gymnastics two years ago as well.
Signing with PLEASURE !!!
: exhibiting polarity; especially : having a dipole or characterized by molecules having dipoles
jetsmom, Dana Tripp is probably the other vet you’re thinking of.
anthem - I was referring to all of the horses killed and their trainers. And imo, it wasn’t a stretch to wonder.
You’re absolutely correct C.Boylan.
Well, Chanda since many of the rules of the USEF actually state the term illegal, one would believe that it does.
So you all agree with me then that much of this speculation is in direct violation of the rules of this bulletin board?
Originally posted by jn1193:
Sgray - A couple more to add! (Can you tell I was in the Chicago area when all this was going on!)
Lisa Brandon (sp?)
John Garvey
Danny Jayne…
I knew a Bill G once - he trained at a friend’s barn for a while - I took a lesson to see how he was - rode my friend’s sweet little schoolmaster - when she got quick after a jump his orders were “yank her face off” and when I did not do so he got on to demo - ugh - a jerk and a half - wonder if they were related
Snowy, I have no disagreement as to the level of his honor and respectability. However, those are two qualities seen through the eyes of others, and just as there are many of us who feel this way about him, there are just as many who feel the opposite.
She has been showing in the A/O jumpers since the late 1990’s as far as I can recall, we would see her in the ring and schooling with our horses and, I will be honest, it bothered me that a hardworking teenager who loved her horses would be so happy on the ride home with rails and no placings ( the JR/AO divisions are tough and big jumps) and yet be so happy and appreciative while Dana and my knowing her history won quite frequently. Bad sport or not looking at a good kid and seeing her beaten by someone who should not even be near horses, just never sat right with me
I can’t imagine her suspension if any was too long, since I am pretty sure we first saw her about 1998, maybe 1997 at the shows.
OK, at risk of being set on fire, can I just suggest that maybe going forward we could just talk about reinstatement and not PV in particular.
Because the USEF has to address the applicaitions for reinstantement ONE AT A TIME, each on its OWN merits.
The USEF can NOT make any kind of group decision about ALL the suspended persons who cna apply for reinstatnement. It has to make a separate decision about EACH application for reinstatement.
Originally posted by Limerick:
My husband commented to me this morning as I sent off the cheque for my horse’s insurance policy that I probably have PV et al to thank for high insurance prices. That may be true. I know it’s an absolute truth, however, that insurance companies now go to extremes to ensure that proper procedures are taken when a horse needs to be euthanized in case of insurance fraud.
ditto workers comp fraud, and car accident fraud, etc. Same problem—why do you think that insuring an animal is different than insuring a boat or plane for instance?
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